The Big Lie is (unfortunately) winning

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Durandal, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Democracy doesn't work for sheep and wolves. Educated people are supposed to be better than that. And if not, then absolutely all democratic processes should be eliminated. Still, the fundamental issue with democracy is that the average person is unequipped to make policy decisions even if they want to be fair. Hence representation. Honestly I think some form of constitutional technocracy is ideal, but I think our democratic republic could improve. Giving rural areas more power per person does not improve democratic processes. At best, it's an arbitrary advantage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  2. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that the difference between humans and animals is that human beings feel it necessary to justify their evil deeds afterwards. It doesn't keep them from doing the evil in the first place but they at least try to explain it afterwards. Never forget the popular vote executed Jesus and Socrates.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  3. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    That was indeed very shocking. I'd never have thought that could happen to the US in modern times. A crazy wannabe dictator who was only a few steps away from crushing a democracy that exists for over 300 years.

    Please never ever let Donald Trump be president again. He's is a Satan like Hitler. He will destroy your nation! :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, oh my the hysteria!
     
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not sure I would necessarily interpret that as the Big Lie winning. Victims of voter suppression would certainly also lose confidence in elections. And the GOP has made more of those.

    I've lost some confidence in the elections myself as a real expression of the will of the people because of all the gerrymandering, voter suppression and fake scandals made up by the right. I think these had a heavier hand on Trump winning the presidency in 2016 than some sort of "voter fraud"
     
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  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dumb is as dumb does ...
     
  7. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    All you have are personal insults. Maybe you should let the grown folks talk about grown folk issues.
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    REGARDLESS OF THE LIES

    Quite right - but that's all they got. So, they use what they got.

    Still, regardless of what or how they do it, in elections they may lose but not by much. And they may win, but not by much.

    Why do I mention the above. Because regardless of the lies, Americans still vote Replicant - (uh, Republican). Which - given the evidence of their incompetence - is difficult to believe ...

    PS: This does not happen on the Right in Europe. It happens on the Left. Those European countries that dumped Communism and entered in the European Union have succeeded in electing heads of state that are highly questionable in their political-allegiances. My Point being this: Regardless of the political-party, men will do their utmost to run the operation and that includes lying, cheating and buying elections.
     
  9. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A good point. There are other reasons to believe that elections don't really reflect the will of the people and you list a few. I expect this accounts for why so many non-Republicans feel that way as well, and I myself worry about Gerrymandering, as well as the influence of corporate donations. Seems as though politicians worry more about losing that kind of support than voter support, at least among the majority of voters who will vote for one party no matter who is running.
     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    POLITICS AND MONEY

    .The problem may be in the manner that Civics Education is taught. It is good but insufficient to describe the three key elements of governance at both the state and Federal level: Executive, Representatives, Judiciary. How these mix and mingle is a better way to teach it to kids.

    The hard part thought is for a Civics Teacher to remain in the political-middle regardless of their own personal convictions. The other aspect - and the most exasperating - is how politics and money are so intertwined ...
     
  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So do I. That would entail the electorate becoming better informed and more involved. Like people need to stop watching DWTS and pick up a newspaper.
     
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you go on Ignore, Mr "Grown Folk" ...
     
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can say that again!

    I have never seen so much stoopid one-liner-commentary regarding politics in the US as now on this forum.

    It's voting time in Uncle-Sam's land and the Replicants are out In force ... !

     
  14. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    VOTER TURNOUT IS NO "BIG DEAL" IN AMERICA

    VOTING is the only way to express one's preference in terms of political-representation and if those who do not vote are simply not-heard-from. They can piss-'n-moan on a forum, but it will make no difference. Only voting makes a difference.

    From Pew Research, here: In past elections, U.S. trailed most developed countries in voter turnout

    Scroll down to the chart ... the US is at the very bottom 32nd on the Voter Turnout listing ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a problem also, for sure. I figure it's one negative effect of a two-party system and a winner-take-all system such as ours. Minority votes basically count for nothing thanks to the winner-take-all model, and this psychologically coerces people to vote for one of the two parties rather than vote for a "spoiler" candidate/party. Others among the unfortunately large portion of non-voters simply don't turn out at all for probably the same reason -- a sense that their vote doesn't matter or they can't get the kind of person elected that they would like to see elected. It doesn't help having so much negativity about every candidate, either, which makes every election feel like a choice between the "lesser evil" rather than a selection of good candidates. I feel these are the depressing factors keeping US voter turnout down.
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I came to Europe I thought that a two-party system was "archaic". I have seen here in Europe how splitting the votes for "head of state" is actually a matter of which party has the most votes in the parliament - which is where they pass laws. The head-of-state in the EU therefore is not distinctly voted into office - his/her party designates the head-of-state for as long as their party is the majority.

    Subtle difference, but interesting. I'm not sure which is best, that of the US or EU. Both "systems of governance" have advantages and disadvantages ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    CAR MAKING STILL HAS A LONG LIFE IN AMERICA

    I'll bet that the Minority Voters are the ones who believe MOST that it requires government help to better their sort in life! They have no or little education - if they had both they could have made an application at any American embassy for any job-offering and got an entry-permit very easily.

    So, migrants (NOT "immigrants") come to America looking for jobs - and what can they do? Menial work - just like any American who has no Skills-training or a Post-secondary degree. So what's a country to do?

    Shut the doors - but for those who make it in offer Skills Training that will help them find a job. I wonder how many who get in actually seek Skills-training!

    America started shipping Good Jobs (making cars, refrigerators, , electrical supplies, etc.) in the 1990s to Central and South America. There is not much left, which is why only about 12% of ALL-AMERICAN-JOBS are found today in Manufacturing ...

    There is also the China-effect that wiped out manufacturing of simple objects (including computers!) in the US. But the news is not all bad! From the Auto Index of 2018 here:
    Nonetheless, the percentage of the parts that constitute a manufactured car in the US (like its motor-engine that will soon become electric) is also worth knowing. And,
    I have read elsewhere that three-quarters of all car-parts are made in the USA.
     
  19. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    He's certainly better than the dementia patient that we currently have in the office. However, Reagan was a fundamental reason in California becoming a liberal hellspace, as, for example, in 1986, then President Reagan signed an immigration bill, giving amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants. (1) And for which party do you think those illegals voted overwhelmingly?

    1. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  20. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    LMAO!
     
  21. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    He told me he was going to put me on ignore, and then replied to me in the next post.
     
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  22. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    Over dramatic people tend to do that.
     
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  23. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    Note to the audience: LafayetteBis posted this in response to me in post 304 in which he said he was going to put me on ignore.

    Now, as for proof of widespread voter fraud, as I've said, there was no thorough investigation to prove voter fraud. Considering the in-depth analysis required to prove voter fraud (1), it would take more than the less than two months and limited resources of the Trump campaign, as compared to, say, a special counsel investigation funded by the US Treasury. What we do know is that absentee voting does, in fact, increase voter fraud (2, 3, 4). Considering that there was a widespread implementation of absentee voting, there is a probability of widespread voter fraud. All we need now is a thorough special counsel investigation into the 2020 election to truly test its integrity. Now, all of this could have been avoided had the Democrats not pushed for a widespread implementation of absentee voting. As I've said multiple times already, were the 2020 presidential election conducted the same way as the 2016 election, I would consider Biden to be a legitimate president. As it stands, considering the facts of how the 2020 presidential election was conducted, I don't.

    1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443864204577621732936167586
    2. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/...il-faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html
    3. https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voting-mail-and-absentee-voting
    4. https://slate.com/news-and-politics...tee-ballots-but-republicans-wont-stop-it.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  24. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    And the reason for that is that there has not any kind of evidence that suggests it happened.
     
  25. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    Of course there is evidence.

    One, more absentee voting means more voter fraud. This is a fact. Since absentee voting was implemented on a widescale, that is evidence of the probability of widespread voter fraud. Two, Joe Biden has been running for president for the last 30 years, and has never made it past the primaries; then, improbably, he gets more votes than any other president in US history? Three, unprecedentedly and thus improbably, the bellwether counties, which have determined who was going to be the winner, by and large, voted for Trump--yet Biden won? All of this alone is enough grounds to launch a thorough investigation. Look, we're not talking about investigating the local dog catcher. We're talking about the most important job in the whole world, and considering how that election was handled, considering the nullification of basic voter integrity laws, it's a reasonable request for their to be a special counsel investigation into that election.
     

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