The Church of Climate Change

No, the EPA is NOT telling anyone what cars they can make.

They ARE in existence to limit pollution. That is the reason the EPA was created!

Car pollution needs to be limited to improve HEALTH.

Today, we're burning 2/3 of our TOTAL oil consumption on our streets! And, the health toll for that is huge in terms of dollars that we pay for support for hospitals, for health insurance, for lost work hours, life expectancy, etc.

 

Oh yes, they are. That's how thier rules work. Not averages. Nothing.

You WILL sell 67% of your vehicles with no CO2 emissions. Or you won't get permission to sell any.

And CO2 has zero health effects.

You're obviously all in one activist hype and baloney.

 

That's what I said.

They control emissions.

ICE vehicles can be constructed such that they conform to emissions standards. As you point out, it's even true that not all vehicles must meet standards.

 

Hey Peices of Malarkey, now tell us how come I can't buy a new car without airbags.

It's true WillReadMore, America is not a free country. You can't even light a lamp without being told what kind of light bulbs you gotta use. As far as ICEs that meet emmisions standards, sure we can do it. Well we can't, but Peices of Malarkey is an automotive engineer, so he can.

Here is what's going to happen -Pieces of Malarkey and his crew will design a car with a smaller ICE, because smaller engines burn less gasoline. Well smaller ICEs don't really burn less gasoline. A gallon of gasoline is only good for about ten horsepower for one hour no matter how you burn it. So the engineers design a car with less horse power, less carrying capacity, less range, lower top end, and not as quick.

At a certain point you might as well walk.

 

Name one vehicle (of any type) that can be sold in the US without meeting EPA emissions standards.

Just one.

 

A 1963 Corvette.

 

CAFE standards are FLEET standards, not individual vehicle standards.

So, there certainly are vehicles that are on the low end of a manufacturer's fleet that do less well than the fleet average. This is just a matter of math and how CAFE standards are applied.

 

This is also a HEALTH issue.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-are-the-Health-Effects-of-Exhaust-Emissions.aspx

Tailpipe emissions are causing significantly higher healthcare expenditure in America.

 

I'd add that states also have emissions standards for vehicles.

So, it does get a little complex as there are CAFE and emissions standards from the EPA and state standards.

I don't know of a car that is in OEM condition that can't comply.

Do you?

 

OMG! I thought we had buried the light bulb frenzy years ago! I keep getting a mental image like the one below every time it is brought up!

 

Look at all the infrastructure rollout they re doing around “Adblue”

 

Ah. So you are divorced from reality. Without the proliferation of greenhouse gases over the last 200 years warming the globe, we would still be in the 'climate' change of the previous 1800+ years.

 

EPA came into existence in 1972. Try after that.

 

CAFE is DOT/NHTSA. It's been virtually useless since EPA took over after Massachusetts v. EPA in 2007.

 

There are no health effects to CO2. An IC engines exhaust running is normally is about 30% CO2, 30% H2O, and 40% Nitrogen. A very small amount of actual pollutants do result from the actual high speed rapidly changing volumes and pressures in the cylinders, but the vast majority of even that is neutralized by catalysts and SCR (urea) systems in diesels.

The claims you reference have been made for years, but generally are made by government and activist economists (the most inaccurate and manipulate able of all pseudosciences) and can't be tied generally to real patients.

That BS is practically meaningless. That's why real people rarely care.

 

Australians must be ignorant about raising chickens.

Here in the northern half of the United States people that raise chickens use incandescent bulbs to heat the coops. You can't find incandescent bulbs in most stores anymore but if you go to the Farm and Barn you can buy a "globular light emitting chicken coop heating element".

You know, a 100 watt incandescent bulb priced at ten times the cost they used to be

 

No but there is for Nox, (NO) NO2, CO, and SO2

Don’t you ever read links?

 

Everything others write is 'practically meaningless' according to you.

 

You can sell a 1963 Corvette today. If you see one, let me know, I wanna take it for a test drive.

 

What happened to ther other 1/3 of our oil? Let me guess...

...you drank it?

 

Why would I do that? I already know all of that. And it's still not relevant to a discussion of climate change.

 

Yeah. And........?

I've made a good living actually doing. I don't have to listen to useless blathering.

 

It's even more absurd than that if you can believe it.

In the first place, the desired outcome of combustion is CO2. That and water. The chemical equation for combustion (any combustion- camp fires, wood stoves, matches, etc.) is:

HC + O2 => CO2 + H2O (HC stands for hydrocarbons)

Every gallon of gasoline burned produces a set amount of CO2 (if memory serves, a gallon of gasoline produces a little better than 19 pounds of CO2. You can get the exact number from the DOE website).

The other thing is that DOTs CAFE standards of mpg is an exact inverse of EPAs CO2 standard in grams per mile. EPAs regulatory system involves hard caps (ie- you will not emit more than X). CAFE is a fleet average of all vehicles sold. So the old mpg standards (and DOT) are now meaningless.

And that's how the con works. EPA says the standard is Y, and DOT inverts those numbers and publishes them as new CAFE standards (their Congressional mandate says they have to).

When EPA says CO2 output for a class of vehicles must be zero, DOT becomes undefined. But that really doesn't matter at that point.

DOT goes ahead and collects fleet average data every year but nobody can be fined for a violation because violations no longer exist.

But in order to sell a single vehicle, EPA has to give you permission ahead of time.

There you go. Sell what we tell you to or die. Or sell practically inferior vehicles that make no technical sense and probably die anyways.

All for an ephemeral idea that can't be empirically confirmed.

 

I would say that our progress on clean air and clean water hasn't been that great. There have been improvements - one can point to times when a lot less care was given to our environment.

EPA faces significant opposition.

 

Yes. These claims have been made for years. And, NOT just by US government agencies. Organizations such as Kaiser Permanente are known for their work in identifying health risk and sources of healthcare expense.

You can't wave your hands and have these results just disappear.