Why do you simply believe crap you make up instead of giving a damn about the truth: https://www.whitehouse.gov/covidplan/ https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...-plan-for-next-pandemic-4-things-to-know.html https://www.science.org/content/article/biden-proposed-science-led-new-deal-end-pandemic-suffering The problem is that one can plan for planning to happen, but there needs to be congressional support, etc., for there to be progress made. Also, the president's plan isn't necessarily the best plan in the world. There needs to be emphasis and discussion toward making this the best plan possible. And, it can't all depend on federal level action.
OMG, and absolutely none of that had a fracking thing to do with what I asked you! Those primarily talked about COVID, and even credited the previous President for laying the ground work for them. But not a single of your references talked anything about recreating a permanent group. https://www.science.org/content/article/biden-proposed-science-led-new-deal-end-pandemic-suffering That is your own reference. Holy hell, even when you provide references, they fail! Now, reference that the current President has recreated the group that President Obama made? Because if he has not, then obviously it is something so insignificant that it does not even matter other than in your own mind. You see, that is the difference between actually reading and understanding a reference, and in addition quoting it. And just vomiting up a ling and expecting others to do your work for you. The problem is, others may actually do that (as I did), and prove how silly your claim it was a "reference" is.
I cited the planning we have. And, I have stated over and over again that we need serious planning. Where did you get so monumentally confused??
No, you screamed over and over that the last President killed planning. I stated that it was so unimportant that the current President in well over a year he has not returned it, it must be a complete non-issue. Ergo, the program killed was insignificant and not even the current President (the VP of the one that created it) has bothered to return it. And you respond with, nonsense. So tell us again how critical that program was that was killed? I wonder how many others are laughing at you along with me.
The “planning” group put together years after two botched responses? The planning group that didn’t do any planning the two years it existed? The planning group that in two years didn’t even plan for masks? LOL That’s why I’m encouraging you to plan because your beloved government isn’t going to no matter how much you defend their lies and incompetence here on PF. It’s not going to make them care more about you than they did in 2009, 2014, or 2020-2022 For a short time. Because both the Obama administration and the Trump administration failed to be prepared. Because bureaucrats like Dr. Fauci etc. that have been movers and shakers for decades failed to prepare. But they will now because you defended their lies on PF and want them to prepare, right?You want the people who intentionally withheld lifesaving mitigations from you and healthcare workers to save you next time. That is not logical. Speak for yourself and your masters. There certainly was a plan in my world. I’m not dependent on fools snd liars. You don’t have to be either. I only post FACTS. I clearly stated SARS has not existed in the HUMAN POPULATION since the last Chinese lab leak in 2004. This is a fact. Please read my posts and respond to what I write, not your fantasies. If you know of any SARS cases in humans after 2004 you need to verify that. Please inform the WHO and the CDC because they are unaware of any. LOL If you can’t differentiate between humans and other species I suggest refraining from pontification on the subject. What? I don’t need Wuhan lab to tell me SARS no longer exists in the human population. But you didn’t answer my question. I asked for something specific we’ve gained from “working” with China or the Wuhan lab. Again, what did we gain? I pointed out after a month of studying the virus the Chinese weren’t able to figure out SARS-CoV-2 was similar to SARS1. Researches in the UK figured it out in a matter of hours. I get you like China. That’s fine. But you have to present something factual and concrete about what value China offers us in the way of pandemics. So far they have only lied and obfuscated. And as I pointed out, the lies and misinformation started long before Trump said “mean things”. They are helping to perpetuate the theory they are involved. They have provided misinformation and disinformation about Covid from the beginning. Long before any American said mean things. To be clear, saying mean things isn’t helpful and I’m opposed. But it is not true the mean things cause China to behave a certain way. They behaved that way before. As I said, I’m open to links or whatever you can use to demonstrate what you are referring to.
2020 is after 2004. Your question of whether we gained anything with China is just the wrong question. My post pointed out that working with China was something the administration of that time was a work in progress. The fact that there was little product does NOT mean there would be no product after beginning work. For example, had US scientists been at the Wuhan lab, we wouldn't have these questions about what the Wuhan lab was doing, whether there was a leak from some experiment, and other questions. We would know more precisely how procedures at the Wuhan lab had to be tightened up to international first world standards (if that was a deficiency), etc. Do I like China? What a STUPID question. I like AMERICA. That's why I say we need to be working on every aspect of our defense against pandemic. I'd point out that China is only one source. There are similar problems going on in the ME and in Africa.
SARS is not SARS-CoV-2. If you are confused about that read my response to Mushroom on the subject. No. I asked the right question. We gained nothing from China. We were outsourcing research on coronavirus because of safety breaches in the US. US funds made their way to Wuhan. If funding is given there should be some written evidence of what research the money produced. Where is that evidence? Why do you not have access to it? If you don’t have access to it why do you think having a scientist there would change that? We gave money indirectly TO the Wuhan lab. Apparently without determining it was safe in your opinion. Without any way of knowing what goes on there in your opinion. And you want the clowns in the US that did that deal to work in that lab with Chinese scientists that couldn’t do in weeks what UK scientists did in hours? Your ideas are more bizarre than those of the people in government that got us into this mess. If you like AMERICA you better come to terms with the fact China does not wish to help us in ANY way. It’s time to let go of the romantic notion the government of China cares about pandemics affecting you. Your own government denied you and healthcare workers lifesaving mitigations. China is less benevolent than your government. And you want to trust them all to do what’s best for you and Americans. SMH.
Defending against the vast reservoir of disease that is in the natural population and has moved to the human population on several occasions can include all sorts of angles. Today, we don't know how/where this disease entered the human population. We need earliest possible warning. There may need to be restrictions on regional markets if/when it is found how humans became infected. There needs to be research on the strains of SARS. Etc., etc. SARS-CoV-2 is in the human population right now. I'm not sure what's causing you to say this stuff about SARS. Plus, we have done almost NOTHING with China at Wuhan, and suggesting that lack of progress from that is an indication that nothing can be gained is just seriously pathetic argument. I've posted several links to planning that is being proposed. Your assessment of China is totally bogus. They shut down when the US started accusing them of malicious assault on the rest of the world. Think what would have happened were roles reversed. There is NO WAY we would allow China to make accusations against our behavior and THEN let them come and start inspecting America. Once again, I like AMERICA. I also like our world. Writing off China because of some STUPID political hate is NOT a way to defend America.
I already answered ALL of this. There is no reason that we can't work with China on this problem. This isn't about benevolence. It's crystal clear that we need planning, because there WILL be more pandemics and we are clearly not prepared to the degree that makes sense in a cost/benefit way.
None of that changes the FACT the planning group you liked didn’t do any planning. It doesn’t change the fact Fauci didn’t do any planning for decades. It doesn’t change the fact neither Republican or Democratic administrations have prepared us in the past. It doesn’t change the fact that SARS is not present in the human population and that you called that fact fantasy. It doesn’t change the fact China misled the world on Covid long before anyone said anything mean about China. It doesn’t change the fact US epidemiologists and public health entities lied to you on numerous occasions and withheld lifesaving mitigations from you. Sure we need to study viruses and epidemiology. We really do. But entrusting that work to liars and fools is not wise. I mentioned SARS as one of the many pandemics that have come from China in the past. I pointed out the Chinese labs are incompetent because they were responsible for the last SARS outbreak. I pointed out China couldn’t figure out SARS-CoV-2 was very similar to the SARS1 virus after studying it for weeks but UK labs figured it out in hours. Then YOU claimed SARS existed in the human population. And it does not. Yes, SARS-CoV-2 does. I’m not sure why you are pointing out the obvious. Well, time to educate you some more. Eco health alliance has been studying coronaviruses at Wuhan lab since 2014. They are a non profit based in the US that received $600,000 in taxpayer funds to help with that research. By 2018 the US was training Wuhan lab workers in Texas. We were gearing up to do more when Covid hit and China started providing mis and disinformation about Covid. Well, then you should not have to worry about a pandemic ever again. No. I’ve clearly shown they “shut down” before any mean things were said. You need to stop revising history to suit your narrative. If you like America you better stop trying to make America dependent on incompetent and dishonest foreign governments. Are you saying I have STUPID political hate for China? All I’ve done is point out what you believe about China and virology/epidemiology is not reality. I’ve corrected the timeline of when China started providing obfuscation and lies about Covid in relation to US criticism of their behavior. I’ve pointed out how incompetent and dishonest they have been previous to any criticism. Stating facts is not hateful or stupid.
You are just plain NOT listening. You are TRYING to not listen. I've never suggested that we've had a planning function that lasted long enough to be successful. And, I've stated that many times. Yes, I said your hate for China is blocking all reason. And, dredging up what you don't like about the past doesn't change that. We need to figure out how to work with China on this problem, because we care about America and the world, and the Wuhan area has prove serious disease potential.
You are right. It’s not about benevolence. China has no desire to be benevolent. And they are incompetent and dishonest as I’ve shown with real life examples. You can work with China. But it will not help you and may harm you. It’s a poor gamble. And yes you need to plan to protect yourself. Because your nutty Uncle Sam isn’t going to do it for you. It’s not in your uncles best interest to do so.
I hear what you say. I’ve pointed out your beliefs are founded on misinformation and lies. None of what you base your reasoning on is reality. The facts all conflict with your opinions. You will never change my mind with appeal to authority, appeal to emotion, or strawman fallacy. I’m in to facts and logic. Sorry. Quote anything hateful I’ve said about China. Go…. Quote something I’ve said about China that isn’t factual. Go…. You do love strawman fallacy.
Everybody has to protect themselves to some degree. There are all sorts of natural disasters, for example, and FEMA and state agencies have defined responsibilities that do not cover everything. But as an individual you can't staff and supply the hospitals in your area. And, you can't affect the transportation methods that bring disease to you and your neighbors. And, you can't fund the research and production of medical solutions. And, you can't supply your grocery store. Today with pandemics we don't have the planning that we do for other types of natural disasters.
You've called China liars. You've claimed they worked on ways to infect the rest of the world. Etc. etc. It will be better for America to just get over it. There is work to be done.
I’ve called them liars because they lied. What do you call people who lie? No quotes? I asked for quotes. Hmmm. They worked on ways to infect the rest of the world? Quote me. Where did I say that? Etc. Etc. is not quotes. What value is there in misrepresentation of what I’ve posted?
Supreme court justices. Presidents. Congressmen. Policemen. Tell me some category where serious lies haven't been told. You've indicated that you believe COVID spread from the Wuhan lab, etc. The thing is, China is who we have to work with at Wuhan. Bitching about past bad behavior (of which there is plenty you ignored) is not an excuse for failing to work on progress toward objectives that are important to America and the rest of the world.
I don’t have to worry about hospitals or transportation. I don’t need a grocery store. That’s the point. I didn’t go to the grocery store so there was no chance of my needing a hospital for pandemic illness. Plan on. Trust the people that let you down and lied to you to do better. But I won’t. I’ll prepare myself because I know from experience it’s far superior than trusting others to do it for me.
LOL. Still no quotes. All I have ever said on PF is that SARS-CoV-2 could have been a product of a lab. And I’ve gone into the details of serial passage etc. to show why. There is no evidence it was. And no convincing evidence it isn’t. The original story that it couldn’t be the product of a lab was a blatant lie. I have not said I believe it came from Wuhan lab. You are making that up. I don’t trust any liars with my life. Doesn’t matter what profession they are in. I’m not the one complaining that my government won’t protect me. I have nothing to bitch about because the lies didn’t personally affect me. But I think it’s important to help others learn how to protect themselves. Pointing out the lies and misinformation from “authorities” is part of that learning process. You can’t make good decisions if you don’t understand why the bad decisions of the past were bad. You aren’t going to get facts like that from anyone but me. Because all I care about is truth. Not politics. Not the feelings of foreign governments. Not my safety because I’ve seen to that. Not the reputations of public servants many have emotional attachment to like Fauci or Cuomo etc. All I care about is people getting accurate and complete information on how to protect themselves. You are welcome to reject it or accept it. But clearly you can not address it with counter evidence.
Sure bud. That’s why I’m the only one providing information for over two years on how to protect yourself and your family from Covid. That’s why I’ve repeatedly urged you to protect yourself. I’m providing information to everyone they will not get anywhere else. Lifesaving information. That is not “only caring about myself”. It’s quite the opposite.
I'm fine with you protecting yourself. Plus, as I pointed out your ability to protect yourself is limited. But, there is still the issue of protecting America.
Limited how? The ability of government to protect me is far more limited than my ability to protect myself. Quarantine is the most effective protection with any infectious disease. My preparation is based on the epidemiological principle of quarantine to avoid exposure to infectious agents. Government can not prepare me to quarantine. The secondary methods of preparedness that are highly effective at preventing infection and severe illness I have spent a lot of time on PF explaining. A few examples are eating a healthy diet, getting plenty of exercise, and maintaining a healthy weight. The government can not help me prepare for a pandemic using these mitigations. Finally, the third line of defense is related to the two previous mitigations. It’s being prepared to deal with the psychological aspect of pandemics. I’ve lamented on PF in the past that I did not educate enough on this aspect during the pandemic. It’s a mistake I made and regret. There are two components here. First, being prepared reduces stress. Those of us who deal with infectious disease daily understand stress is one huge predictor of infection risk and risk of severe disease. There are many physiological aspects, but the easiest to observe is cortisol (a well known “stress hormone”) that at elevated levels has severe negative impacts on the immune system. So maintaining a low stress lifestyle greatly reduced chance of infection and severe disease. The second aspect of stress is the compromised ability to make good decisions when suffering from chronic or acute stress. In a pandemic this leads to people being infected from making a poor choice on another mitigation because their stress level excluded critical thought. The government during Covid was a net contributor to stress. The government can not reduce my stress level. Only personal preparedness can remove stress from the equation. Depending on others is a stressor you don’t have to endure. Switching gears now, government really only has band aid solutions. Nothing they can do prepares you with the best mitigations. The ones offered by government are reactionary, not proactive. This means mitigations from government, even with the best intentions, are inferior to personal preparedness. Add in the well documented cases where government intentionally exacerbated the problem and it’s clear personal acts of preparedness are far superior to the very limited options government possesses. Yes. Protecting America (and individuals from other countries that are on PF) is my goal. That’s why I’m here providing information withheld from you by governments. It’s why I started educating you in April of 2020 on very effective mitigations your government still won’t share with you. It’s why I have repeatedly explained how being prepared made my life safer and less stressful than the vast majority of people during Covid. It’s why I’m still here trying to convince others to grasp this excellent opportunity to be prepared for future problems.
