The Pittsburgh Steelers football team will remain in the locker room during the National Anthem

Great gif! But, to your point, these guys are blithering ignoramuses. I had the unique experience of sitting through a graduation class from a liberal college. I listened to every word, of every speaker and these folks are beyond dumb and the dumber their pronouncements the more brilliant they view them, and everyone is telling them that they are our "future leaders". So they are walking out of that experience fully expecting to pick up the reins of societal power. And the experience coming to them is a full speed sprint into the goal post.

But anyway, I had several millennials, some woman and some others in the group I was sitting with, and I polled them afterwords to get a sense of how deeply these speeches resonated with them. They all expressed general support and encouragement, but when I pressed further, they had no idea what was said and I knew why. The entire time they were all engrossed in their smart phones. They all knew how to listen to the cadence of the speeches without listening to the words and so they hit all the applause lines with cheers and applause. I had a good view of the student body, they were all doing the same thing. Bolted to their smart phones, yet hitting the applause lines with cheers and clapping, perfectly.

These guys have a great deal of potential and they will be our leaders, but we have to help them through the process, and that process is going to start with a full face plant.

But this Anthem thing, pure bull ****, led by leaders... who in their right mind would follow a guy who can't even land a back up quarterback slot, off a cliff? But hey, natural selection has its role in the overall health of a society. They are making their choices, I'm making sure they are not shielded from the consequences so they can fully learn their lessons.

 

There is a point where further discussion is futile. We're past that point. You've been shown the truth, but refuse to accept it.

 

That works both ways

The lefties are very entrenched also

Which is a good reason for not mixing sports and politics

A pox on the house of liberals for tainting the game of pro football

 

I think there is a big difference between not liking players protesting during the anthem and desiring to deny them the right to protest during the anthem or asking for them to be fired for protesting.

I agree that it's a good idea not to mix sports and politics, but there is no rule against it, so it's going to happen. In this particular instance, suggesting people be fired for doing something that is Constitutionally guaranteed made the situation worse.

If you're throwing poxes around, throw them both ways. Both sides are involved.

 

The fans didnt start this light

A black liberal player started the fight and it has snowballed out of control

As for their free speech rights we both know that does not apply to the private workplace

 

Why do they feel the need to cheat then? Skilled players don't have to cheat.

 

Here's where we differ… the athlete that started the protest had every right to protest, whether we like his choice of method or venue. The others that joined him have the same right. The athlete that started the protest no longer plays in the NFL. The protests were declining. I've read that before Trump made his remarks, only 9 players were protesting, out of more than 1000 players. that's less than 1%. Then Trump rudely opined in a campaign rally, and the protests erupted in every game on Sunday and the Monday Night game. THAT is when the issue snowballed, not beforehand.

As for their free speech rights, we do NOT both know that. NFL players do have freedom of speech. YOU may not have free speech rights at your private workplace, but that is not a universal condition. What Kaepernick did is NOT against the rules of the league. Therefore he was not reprimanded or fired. He was not re-contracted, which is a consequence of his actions taken by the owner of the team… the owner that did not fire him during the season… for a reason.

 

Re your comment....What Kaepernick started is actually specifically against league policy and there is an entire thread devoted to that fact.
He has every right to free speech. He does not have the right to stage Black Lives Matter-style protests on league time (though it seems like the league has capitulated and suspended their own regulations).

If business gets bad enough we'll see if Goodell values his malcontent players more than paying customers.

 

Colbert put it right. "When the NFL can take the moral high ground over you, you're in trouble" Our Traitor-in-Chief is attacking free speech, a core concept of our Republic, that alone justifies his impeachment IMO

 

No I've shown you the facts of the actual wording of the law and the actual definition of the word should and you've chosen to believe the interpretation of someone with an obvious political bias who couldn't even point to any part of the rule where it says its only a recommendation.

If you have your heart set on blindly accepting someone else's opinion and can't even speak to the actual wording of the rule itself there is nothing more to say.

I cannot force you to think for yourself.

 

LOL@Stephen Colbert. Trump is revoking no one's freedom of speech or assembly. Every player involved in these protests hasn't lost a single right or bit of freedom...despite what a late night clown show has to say.

Maybe Trump just has a problem with millionaire malcontents disrespecting the flag by staging their Black Lives Matter-Lite protests
during the national anthem.

 

No one has demonstrably lost any freedom YET. Trump is attacking free speech, and obviously thinks it a higher priority than dealing with natural disasters, which most people, besides conservatives, always thought government was actually supposed to do

 

You probably know that I think they're all know-nothings, who are misguided in their protests.

I fully support their right to be wrong. I could even accept their politicization of sporting events, even though that is so very wrong. They can be as moronic and hypocritical as they want.

As long as they will disrespect flag and country, I will keep calling them the really bad names.

 

Can you take a knee at work or wear your BLM shirt and protest on company time?

No one has a "right" to protest at work.

Can someone protest moderators here, or will they get censored and shut down?

 

You think a single comment or two about NFL protests shows a "higher priority" than dealing with natural disasters (of which federal efforts have been universally lauded)? That's just ridiculous and absurd but no one ever said that the whining of Trump critics was reasonable.

 

You know that it depends on the place of employment and the rules of the company as to what employees are allowed to do during work hours. What others can or cannot do in their workplace is beside the point with this issue. The NFL players are able to protest, as shown by what Kaepernick did. He wasn't fired. He wasn't even disciplined. When the season was over, the owner didn't renew his contract. There was a consequence for his protests, but only because he was contracted. There was no rule against what he did. It's as simple as that. That's why you see Trump saying they need to make a rule about it. What the NFL does though, is up to the NFL, and not Trump.

Some workplaces let you sell Girl Scout cookies from your kid's troop and some don't. Some workplaces let you have casual Friday and some don't. Some workplaces let you wear campaign buttons and some don't. I've said repeatedly in this thread that I wish Kaepernick had chosen a different method and venue to make his protest, but he had the right to do what he did because there was no rule against it and free speech is a Constitutional right.

 

That's you using your free speech, if you call them really bad names. Seems you're doing the same as the protesting players, especially if you call them bad names at work.

 

You've not shown me a LAW or a RULE. You've shown me a recommendation from the NFL's Operations Manual, written by the NFL. The recommendation does not say that players MUST do anything when it comes to pre-game activities, and you can't show me differently, because it does not exist. I choose to see that the NFL itself has said that there would be no punishment for Kaepernick, for the players that joined him in protest before Trump made his remarks, or for the players that protested on Sunday and Monday, because there is no rule or law that allows it.

Just what consequence is in the Operations Manual for players that don't stand during the anthem, as recommended?

 

Fines, suspensions and in some extreme instances loss of future draft picks which as any football fan knows, is extremely serious business may be handed out at the league's discretion.

It's all been documented and posted in the thread that is dedicated to the issue (the NFL's operating manual and what it says about the national anthem specifically) which should indicate to anyone that it is more than just a "recommendation".

The NFL itself has invalidated their own procedural imperatives over this Black Lives Matter-Lite issue but to pretend it was never there
to begin with is clearly a mistaken notion. I suggest you read the applicable citations and familiarize yourself with the subject matter.

 

Yes, we'll see if the NFL changes their stance on this issue eventually. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. Several owners participated in Sunday and Monday protests, so I have some doubts they will change things.

This link disproves your claim that what Kaepernick did was specifically against league policy. An advisory code of recommendations with no written or defined consequences does not require anyone to do anything. The link also says Trump can make a proclamation to add a recommendation against kneeling during the anthem, but he hasn't, and even if he did, it wouldn't be legally enforceable. The whole point is that showing respect for a symbol is not something that can be required of people that live in a country with free speech. It would be less controversial if everyone followed the recommendations, as I choose to do. However, as my dad often said, you don't have to do anything but die and pay taxes.

 

Actually I have. You simply have chosen not to actually read it.

That is factually false. Nowhere in the rule does it state it is a recommendation and I challenge you to quote the exact wording in the rule that states its a suggestion. You know you can't because it doesn't exist.

I know this is difficult for you to admit your mistake. Let's look at it from this perspective. Perhaps it will help you think this through more carefully.


UPDATE THREE: The NFL, responding to the Kansas City Star, confirmed the national anthem-related rules cited above. However, the NFL's vice president of communications, Brian McCarthy, "stressed that [the] passage about the national anthem is a guideline and not a requirement."

But this is odd since the rule warns that failure to comply "may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses." Why does the NFL attach penalties for failure to comply if this is all just a "guideline," as the league now argues?

https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-goodell-ignoring-leagues-own-rule-book-letting-players

Certainly does bring up an interesting point doesn't it. How many "recommendations" as you falsely categorize it are followed with threats of fines and suspensions for non compliance?

Can you answer that simple question?

 

"MAY" be handed out. Does that look like a hard and fast rule to you?
I have posted in this thread about the Operations Manual and read the other thread. I am familiar with the point you are attempting to make, but the Operations Manual has no teeth when it comes to the anthem. "SHOULD" indicate to anyone that it is more than a recommendation? When the NFL VP for Communication tells you straight up that it is a recommendation and they will not impose any penalty for not following a recommendation, what you think it "should" indicate people is moot.

You don't have to like their rules, recommendations, or how the enforce things. It's their business and they will do as they want. If you disagree, don't watch the games or buy the merchandise. You're not going to change Constitutional rights, but you might force the NFL to make some changes. My bet is they will remove the anthem from the games to put an end to the controversy. If that's what you want, go for it.

 

Still on this same failed argument. What does the law say about, traffic violations?


Some of the following violations may result in immediate driver's license suspensions:

• 
  
  
  • Extreme speeding ticket violations.
  • DUI/drinking and driving offenses.
  • Causing a serious accident.
  • Pedestrian endangerment violations.

Well looky there. They also use "may" when discussing fines. Does that mean those laws are just suggestions too?

https://www.dmv.org/traffic-tickets.php

And once again the word "should" has no definition calling it a suggestion and I challenge you to provide one that makes that claim.

 

Too many fans view this as an affront to the anthem, flag, vets, and Trump who's spoken out in defense of all 3. The Packers floated attendees linking arms in solidarity ... fail. The NFL will want a converasation, kneeling is over.

 

From the NFL operating manual itself: "Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses." There can be no mistake now about league policy and what the penalties are for employees who ignore them.

It would be a mistake and biased bit of selective reading to pretend the NFL has not specifically addressed the matter of national anthem
protocol and that there are not real consequences, should the league choose, in dealing with players who wish to ignore league directives.

The only mitigating factor is the league itself has ignored it's own proscriptions and we'll see how long this lasts. But even at that.
your comments ring false because they all rest on an error...that there was never a policy in place that required respect for the national anthem and there were no teeth in place to insure that respect should the league decide that was needed.

I expect you will change your views now that you know better.