The world is a far more dangerous place

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by EarthSky, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    23,997
    Likes Received:
    4,879
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know I'm wasting my time, but why do you think it's funny?
     
  2. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    23,997
    Likes Received:
    4,879
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Social engineering mate - nobody does it better?
     
    Fred C Dobbs likes this.
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    28,923
    Likes Received:
    8,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Simple - none of our invasions were "illegal".
     
  4. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male

    Not true. He leveraged sanctions against them.
     
  5. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    76,559
    Likes Received:
    13,793
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not so

    Obama was all talk but no action
     
  6. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly!!! This is what the Western powers miss when the start blaming Putin for aggression in Ukraine and Crimea.These people don't want to be part of a corrupt, bankrupt western puppet regime in Ukraine that is only kept afloat by western loans and investment made for the sole purpose of poking the Russian bear right on it's borders. Ask yourself why all the refugees that were fleeing Donestsk and Luhansk were headed to Russia on not west?

    The are ethnic Russian.

    Also consider that Crimea has been the seat of the black sea fleet since the time of Catherine. The only reason Ukraine had possession of the area is because Khrushchev got drunk one night and gifted in to them for some reason - probably some grandiose gesture we are all prone to after a few too many vodkas.

    I don't think Americans understand the machinations that went into Maidan behind the scenes.
     
    ronv and ArchStanton like this.
  7. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, that is what he is doing in Crimea, Ukraine and the Black Sea.

    I do agree with you that he is brutal in countering his enemies and resistance to his agenda and that he has usurped power. I am certainly not trying to paint Putin as anything but the ex-KGB operative that he is. And I hate his attacks on the LGBQ people and his arch social conservatism.

    But I do respect him as a pragmatist and someone the west could genuinely negotiate a reduction in nuclear arms with if they could get past the "we are good and democratic and everyone who stands in our virtuous way is an evil tyrant" rhetoric.

    Speaking of cartoonish figures, have you had a good look at who is in the white house these days?:rolleyes:

    upload_2019-2-8_11-20-7.jpeg
     
    Jonsa likes this.
  8. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    34,927
    Likes Received:
    5,949
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Huh? nice false equivalency you are using to avoid the fact that Trump is a russian arse kisser.

    But I agree that there were some hard liners that thought Reagan should have done more.
     
  9. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    34,927
    Likes Received:
    5,949
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I take issue with HOW he made his decision. It is obvious his "reasons why" are one dimensional and merely transactional, not strategic.

    Withdrawal is reneging on the nation's commitments. If it breaks the treaty then withdrawal does break the treaty. Its pretty damn straightforward.
     
  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    28,923
    Likes Received:
    8,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL
    You don't take issue with why he made the decision, or even the decision itself, but the path you believe he took to get there.
    That's laughable, at best.
    How do you not know a party can withdraw from a treat without breaking said treaty when said treaty has a provision for the parties to withdraw?
     
  11. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    34,927
    Likes Received:
    5,949
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What's laughable is that you think making such enormous decisions can be made on a "gut reaction" and not in consideration of the myriad complexities, dependencies, and assessing potential outcomes.

    In this regard, the decision effectively gives Putin a free hand without any repercussions and has effectively begun a second nuclear arms race.

    I said it amounts to the same thing in the end. But I grant its two distinctly different actions, that yield the same result. It invalidates the treaty and the obligations therein.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  12. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The best thing about being a Leftist must be that they never need discuss financing for their pie in the sky programs, or evidence for the claims they make. Just thinking things makes them true.
     
  13. James Evans

    James Evans Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Your dodge is noted. Whataboutism will not work here. Trump is a Russian puppet.
     
  14. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So Trump is a Russian puppet and Obama was/is an Iranian stooge. At least Trump hasn't sent the Russians billions of dollars while allowing Islamism to grow and flourish in the Middle East.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  15. James Evans

    James Evans Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    You are a puppet
     
  16. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's all you got going for ya, right James? That's the way it is for all the pathetic Obamadolts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  17. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    23,997
    Likes Received:
    4,879
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Would you like to give me some evidence that Assad asked you to help him out?? I understood that you gathered up your poodles - France and the UK - around you then went into Syria with all guns blazing. And as usual made everything worse than it already was! [​IMG]
     
  18. James Evans

    James Evans Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    WTF has Obama got to do with this? Bu Bu But Obama or Bu Bu But Hillary is all you people have. Whataboutism is a disease and you need to check yourself into the infirmary.
     
  19. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You call the current President (and me), without evidence, a 'puppet' but when it comes to genuine puppetry, with genuine evidence, you don't want it mentioned.

    If you want to be rude just say so and we can have at it, otherwise please refrain from personal insults.
     
  20. James Evans

    James Evans Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Russia is now poised to plant intermediate range nuclear warheads capable of hitting European targets in minutes. They are using the excuse to do so because Trump pulled out of the treaty. If that isn't being a Russian puppet I don't know what is. Sanctions have also been lifted on Russian oligarchs against the wishes of the U.S. intelligence agencies. These are just two examples of Trump acting against U.S. interests. I can name more if you want.
     
    ronv likes this.

Share This Page