Toxic plant or medicine?

Discussion in 'Science' started by FatBack, Jul 18, 2023.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the dose makes the poison, the body can get stronger with stresses, to a point as well

    the longest person to have lived was a smoker... but she was a very moderate smoker.. so even though she smoked over 100 years of her life, she lived to be the oldest person to have live

    fasting, cold\hot exposure, exercise, sun, etc... all stresses that can be good if not done to excess
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    After my limited experimentation with these... I see no reason to further consume any.

    I consumed one Berry and waited 48 or maybe it was 70 something hours before consuming anymore. Then I ate two of them.

    In the next several days when laying down to go to bed I had a racing heart. Which is not normal for me. Not sure that they caused it but I did not see any benefit.
     
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  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    good to know, thanks
     
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  4. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.... I usually find the remnants on my car, courtesy of the birds....

    I turn to holistic/native/alternative medicine whenever I can as a first choice. I'm not big on being a guinea pig, however.
     
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  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Granted, I didn't try a poultice form.
     
  6. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    If it goes wrong can I have your bike?
     
  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Sure but my experiment has concluded but I do tend to take risks..... perhaps another plant will catch my eye?
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Homeopathy doesn't give a crap about how many die. There is no data collected. There is no science related to safety or efficacy of concoctions. There is no pharmacology or established system of diagnosis or prescription.

    Remember that many who die in hospitals went there after having tried homeopathy - thus delaying legitimate diagnosis and treatment and making death more likely.

    Plus, declaring success when someone recovers from some malady is common even when there is no resort to healthcare of any kind beyond aspirin and bed rest.
     
  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I'm just curious what sort of evidence you have to make the claim that many who die in hospitals have tried homeopathic medicines.

    I don't know very many people who have tried it personally because they're too terrified to try anything outside of what their doctor tells them.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    One main question is why do people delay getting a diagnosis from a doctor who has the training and equipment to do that. That's not necessarily easy to study, as it depends on asking a seriously ill patient why they waited to a point where treatment is difficult or impossible. This is not a question that a doctor would ordinarily ask, as it gives no insight on how to proceed.

    Beyond that, it's really hard to pin down cases in the USA, as there is essentially zero standardization of diagnosis or treatment and zero record keeping. Nobody knows what was "prescribed".

    There ARE herbs, etc., that allopathic medicine has determined are helpful. But, homeopathy has no way of diagnosing serious problems. And, if those herbs would be helpful, there is no standardization or testing of sources that allow for a reliable dosage, including effective frequency.

    And, homeopathy is not limited to that. Today, we see "homeopathic vaccines for COVID". That's just plain STUPID.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
  11. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Now it’s time to back up your claims. First, the claim homeopathy doesn’t give a crap.

    Then please provide evidence for your claim many deaths occur in hospitals after homeopathy.

    I’ll back up my claim here.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...rs_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us

    I’ve made a claim about deaths directly attributable to the medical care you are defending. You have made claims about homeopathy that are as far as I can tell just your unsubstantiated opinions. Give me some data. Show me a study similar to the John Hopkins one above and let’s compare stats of deaths from homeopathy to “medical care”. Remember they had to do a study to figure out the deaths in reporting. There was no data directly collected on that statistic either.

    To be clear, I’m not saying everyone should ditch “health care” and take up homeopathy. But let’s see what the biggest threat is and who doesn’t care by comparing data, not just spouting opinions.
     
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Hospitals treat people who have serious health problems - including those who will die in spite of our spectacular science based medical advancement.

    Comparing that to homeopathy in ANY WAY is not acceptable.

    Yes, accidents do happen in hospitals. But, homeopathy does not offer a solution to that.
     
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  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. So all you have is unsubstantiated opinions. You don’t like homeopathy (although you can’t cite data to support that opinion). And you seem unconcerned MEDICAL ERRORS (not just in hospitals) are the third leading cause of death! Do you not give a crap that a quarter to half a MILLION die of medical errors? Yet you are concerned about what is essentially placebo “treatment”. I think you are looking in the wrong place if you are concerned about malpractice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Can I say be careful? Australia just had three deaths from mushrooms that were wild harvested. (Apparently it is almost impossible to differentiate the safe varieties from the lethal ones here in Aus).

    That said they have used extracts from Pokeweed as the basis for antivirals. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0041008X10004151

    Having said that - they are talking medical extract.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/phytolacca-americana
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
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  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm not unconcerned about medical errors. That is YOU making silly assumptions.

    The catch is that in a healthcare situation so serious that you are depending on them for life, the least mistake they make can easily be lethal.

    That's not the problem with homeopathy, where the larger damage is that people are encouraged to refuse medical help.

    At the start, a tumor might give you migraines. So, you start popping belladonna. Do I have to point out the rest of that story?
     
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols! I remember one patient who was hooked up to every variety of life support machine we had and one of the relatives had brought in some “crystals” in a bag to hang on the end of the bed. One wag noted they were trying “Stonal Therapy” :p
     
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  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I have seen some of the early research nd it looks promising. The much maligned AIC pushed through a bill to fund more research
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    That is because 90% of people know it is a complete crock
     
  19. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I told you I’m not a proponent of homeopathy. I’m simply asking you to back up your claims. If they are true, and not just your opinions, provide some evidence.

    If you are concerned about medical errors, why ramble on about your unsubstantiated opinions about how terrible homeopathy is?
     
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  20. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt 90% of people have any idea what it actually IS. That’s why I’m a bit flummoxed as to why some people are worried about it when we should be focused on modern medicine being the third largest killer in the US.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    They could have fed the patient something that they believed would help, too.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The FDA IS very interested in medical errors, as are hospitals and private practices.

    What the FDA has NOT done is to take action on homeopathy.

    They are considering doing that, but it's bee a long haul as there are congressmen and others who believe it should be perfectly OK for citizens with ZERO training of any kind to be in business to sell homeopathy products and give medical advice.

    The spending on alternative medicine in the US is about $35 Billion/year. About 44% of that was spent on products like fish oil, glucosamine and echinacea.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Those are two different problems.

    They do not lend themselves to similar solutions.
     
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  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the crystals were worse than doctors prescribing drugs based on financial relationships rather than the best interest of the patient?
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That's not a rational comparison.

    First of all, ALL drugs that doctors are allowed to prescribe have passed serious testing for safety and efficacy against the medical problems they are designed for.

    As we've seen, there certainly was (and is) a problem with with prescription of pain meds, which are highly addictive as well as any other solutions to pain.

    But:
    - in allopathic medicine this is something that gets addressed. There is no such method of examination of errors made by homeopathic practice.
    - pain (at serious levels not addressable by homeopathy) is an incredibly difficult problem to solve. It's a field slow to advance for a variety of reasons.

    Besides, the abuse of drugs available on the street can not be directly charged to allopathic medicine.
     
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