What lawlessness have proved other than nothing? On what legal charge are you using against Lerner and the commissioner? - - - Updated - - - What substance? Gowdy having a conversation with himself?
Maybe the IRS should realize that they audit approx 1.5 million individuals each and every year and that they are the second most hated agency in the Government only being eclipsed last year by the TSA. If they end up in a jury trial, they'll quite likely end up in jail for at least a few years.
Trey Gowdy doesn't "own" anything besides that stupid hair lip, a dumb sounding accent, and a family history of racism.
What criminal acts? To make a statement like that, you have to already have proof. What is your proof?
And highly unprofessional to say the least. He was a one man show. The problem with that is, he was having a conversation with himself and no one else. - - - Updated - - - On what charge?
Besides, when she was called in it was not a trial in court, she was called before her bosses, basically to explain herself. I'm quite sure anyone out there right now plead the 5th to their boss, they'd be shown the door. Still, she's a liar, her boss is a liar, the entire thing is a political cover up. I expect nothing less from this administration.
I'd love to see them slug it out. These guys are pathetic and should be publicly shamed for the tax dollars the have wasted on their predictable BS.
How can that evidence be evidence when the so called evidence was destroyed between 2009 and 2011; http://on.msnbc.com/1wq1hzE before this investigation ever took place? Lois Lerner new of no investigation at that time because none existed. And she never new one would start. Your conclusions about her make zero sense. But this whole thing makes zero sense.
Oh I right. Why would they target tea party groups? When the IRS shouldn't care about party affiliations right. I mean why would the IRS even bother to separate applications by party's ? Right? If they don't look at what party someone is from right? Why even have one party's apps sent off to another place and held up for a longer period of time then the other party's right. The fact that they separated them by party's is targeting. Case close
Right. If a bunch of gear disappeared from our studio and our grips said they don't want to talk about it, we would fire them since we obviously couldn't trust them anymore. Or if a client called up complaining about one of our Creatives and that someone just said they can't talk about the incident, they'd be fired too. I really can't understand how govt can get away with LYING over and over again without serious repercussions.
Precisely! The entire thing should have gotten the kabbash when it became clear that the IRS is SUPPOSED TO investigate political groups, in fact, according to the way the law was written, they are obliged to do so. Why is the idiocy allowed to continue?
do your home work Spoliation of evidence The spoliation of evidence is the intentional or negligent withholding, hiding, altering, or destroying of evidence relevant to a legal proceeding.[1] Spoliation has two possible consequences: in jurisdictions where the (intentional) act is criminal by statute, it may result in fines and incarceration for the parties who engaged in the spoliation; in jurisdictions where relevant case law precedent has been established, proceedings possibly altered by spoliation may be interpreted under a spoliation inference. The spoliation inference is a negative evidentiary inference that a finder of fact can draw from a party's destruction of a document or thing that is relevant to an ongoing or reasonably foreseeable civil or criminal proceeding: the finder of fact can review all evidence uncovered in as strong a light as possible against the spoliator and in favor of the opposing party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence pay attention to the bolded portion an investigation doesn't need to be proceeding to be charged with spoliation of evidence just the reasonably foreseeable chance of one is all that is required Lerner had reasonably foreseeable chance of an investigation when Rep Camp sent a letter to the IRS asking about the unfair targeting of conservative groups 10 days before the hard drive crash and the destruction of the hard drive
If that were actually the case, then this scandal is over. Because that is "EXACTLY" what they were supposed to be doing all along, according to the legal law written, which is "EXCLUSIVELY' for social welfare status. Targeting would be a priority then. See how easy that is?
To quote you from before: "that's its ONLY use" (emphasis yours). As we can see, the Fifth Amendment is used for much more than that single clause. Pleading "context" now does not alter the fact that you were being less than honest from the start. Good for you! Now, please show me the "criminal defendants" that you're referring to. That's something that you should practice before you preach. Wrong again. First of all, your belief that the only way to get to know a document such as the Constitution of the United States of America is to "Google it" reflects your own lax standards, and nothing about me. I happen to possess several copies of the Constitution, in print and electronic form. It should also be noted that you are the one who said the first thing about you lying. It's your Freudian slip, and you own it completely. Still not true.
It's entertaining to see an experienced prosecutor like Trey Gowdy rip into an arrogant, snide, deceitful bag of **** like Koskinen, but remember, the hearings are not being held for us to be entertained. A Special Prosecutor with plenipotentiary powers must be appointed or all this is just a waste of time. Gowdy needs to be able to present these lying IRS-Gestapo bastards with the very real possibility of having their lying asses thrown in prison. Then, and ONLY then is anybody going to finally tell the truth about anything.... Unfortunately, from what I understand, the appointment of an SP would be the prerogative of Eric Holder roflol, so you know there never will be any meaningful investigation into these crimes, and there won't be any punishment for the criminals, either. Nixon was forced to resign for crap like this, but that was a different day, when the United States was a completely different country....
Exactly! They now are on the new kick of spoliation of evidence. What they haven't figured out is, even though there is no evidence to be had, that what ever evidence they think they can get isn't worth anything anyway. If they were to find evidence of Targeting personally by Lerner of conservative groups, "AND"...... what is the charge? The charge that she was exercising the "EXACT" letter of the law? So far, the barnicle barkers have not answered the most important question in this whole made up fiasco. And that is it. I will bet my right arm Gowdy wouldn't touch that question with a ten foot pole.
ignoring the law doesn't make it not a law here I will post it again Spoliation of evidence The spoliation of evidence is the intentional or negligent withholding, hiding, altering, or destroying of evidence relevant to a legal proceeding.[1] Spoliation has two possible consequences: in jurisdictions where the (intentional) act is criminal by statute, it may result in fines and incarceration for the parties who engaged in the spoliation; in jurisdictions where relevant case law precedent has been established, proceedings possibly altered by spoliation may be interpreted under a spoliation inference. The spoliation inference is a negative evidentiary inference that a finder of fact can draw from a party's destruction of a document or thing that is relevant to an ongoing or reasonably foreseeable civil or criminal proceeding: the finder of fact can review all evidence uncovered in as strong a light as possible against the spoliator and in favor of the opposing party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence A judge would be allowed to assume and or a jury would be instructed to assume that the destroyed evidence would be incriminating and hence the reason for the destruction of it
I second that! All you pocket attorneys out there, if you're sitting on all this damning evidence, why haven't you simply gone to the US Attorney's office and filed a criminal complaint? What's that? "Not a criminal case"? "No evidence"? "Title 18 U.S. Code § 287"? 18 U.S. Code § 287 - False, fictitious or fraudulent claims "Whoever makes or presents to any person or officer in the civil, military, or naval service of the United States, or to any department or agency thereof, any claim upon or against the United States, or any department or agency thereof, knowing such claim to be false, fictitious, or fraudulent, shall be imprisoned not more than five years and shall be subject to a fine in the amount provided in this title." Looks like we have the answer...
While you maintain that Trey Gowdey "owns" the IRS Commissioner, that is inherently false. As we all know (or should know), slavery was abolished in 1865 so your statement holds no value.
Dude, do you understand what I have been typing here forever? By the letter of the law, there is no such animal that exists that says there is unfair targeting of conservative groups. No such thing exists. The law tells us that, okay? The law relieves any burden on the IRS for Targeting "any" organization. Period! The IRS can target all groups according to the law. That is why the law is there to begin with. To avoid corruption, which is exactly what Tea Party groups were doing. It is very possible that Darrell Issa and Trey Gowdy do not know that, because it is not in their party's interest to address such a thing, because it would totally destroy this investigation. And that is not the purpose of this circus show. The evidence they think they are looking for, stares straight into the face of that big Gorilla in the room which is the law. Team wacko birds can find whatever they want to find. But once they realize it is in direct alignment with the law, their circus is over. http://on.msnbc.com/1wq1hzE
What judge? What jury? There are none! You seem to be under the false impression that the GOP hoax is an actual court of law. It is not! We know this because there is no judge, no jury...so on and so forth...
because the investigation isn't over because the more you investigate the better chance more evidence will be found and the more evidence you have the more charges you can file and the more evidence you have the less of a chance that Holder can deny prosecution also with more evidence you have on Lerner more of a chance she will see there is no getting out of it and it is time to cut a deal and start naming names - - - Updated - - - when charges are filed believe me there will be one or both anyways it is more then a judge or jury is allowed to assume. the fact finder is also allowed to assume by law the destroyed evidence was incriminating and the Fact Finders here is the Committee "the finder of fact can review all evidence uncovered in as strong a light as possible against the spoliator and in favor of the opposing party."
