Trump administration separated families. Reuniting them is a giant mess.

Dignity entails showing up for your court hearing. It does not entail gibs me free stuff which is what most of them are here for in the first place. Enough.

 

Once again the typical Trump voter reveals the sources of information he really uses

 

You understand there is a difference in a law and a policy, yes? One actually has legal consequences.

It absolutely IS about people applying for the process legally, just not through a port of entry… which is NOT required by law (see above- LAW not policy), and having their children stripped from them. What it is not about is the majority of illegal aliens who come into the US on a student, tourist, or other visa, and don't leave when the visa expires. Most illegal immigrants do not cross the border illegally. They enter legally with a visa and don't leave, even when they are no longer legal. Asylum seekers aren't coming here with a visa, FYI.

It is inhuman to strip kids from their parents for doing nothing illegal, and can cause long lasting, if not permanent, psychological damage to the children. We should be ashamed, as a country, yet people are here defending it, despite it being stopped by our legal system.

I'm not sure you're reading my posts before quoting and replying, because I have addressed your family separation meme about incarcerated Americans and their children, versus asylum seekers twice before. I'm not going to address it again.

 

Correction, I don't use propaganda. My county and the neighboring ones are about 20% Hispanic. Yet the vast majority of the crime is generated by them. DUI's, assaults, thefts and for practical purposes all of the homicides. The last two were by immigrants. The litter problems are all theirs. Free births, health care, food subsidies, mostly theirs. Even DUI check points can't stop them. None of them have auto insurance, that just your problem. Spare me your liberal babble

 

If drinking Bud Light and littering makes you Hispanic immigrant, there's a lot of Hispanic Bubbas in my area. I was under the impression that Hispanic was a racial category. Silly me! Now I know it means a Bud Light drinking litterer.

 

Well, one man had the original copy of his son's birth certificate with him… so there's that. How do you know the kids aren't the parents'?

But there is evidence that even families who seek asylum at ports of entry are being separated. One high-profile case involves a Congolese woman who sought asylum and still was separated from her 7-year-old daughter. In February, NPR's Burnett reported on the legal battle of Ms. L v. ICE.

"Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service has documented 53 incidents of family separation in the last nine months, mostly Central Americans. Other immigrant support groups say there are many more cases," Burnett reported.

Reporter Jean Guerrero of KPBS in San Diego reported on the case of a Salvadoran father, Jose Demar Fuentes, who says he sought asylum and was separated from his 1-year-old son, Mateo, despite having an original birth certificate proving that he is the boy's father.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/6210...y-separation-and-zero-tolerance-at-the-border​

 

Weak response and drinking Bud Light doesn't make you litter. It's only the drink of choice for them, especially while driving with no insurance. However any form of trash will do and they'll pass up a trash can to throw it on the roadside. But hey, lets bring in more of these people. Yeah, they'll work for next to nothing, but you have to clean up the mess afterwards. They look at a porta potty like it's something from outer space. But hey we have all this fine land to take a shizer on. Why not?

 

And you know this just how and was it verified? The truth is that you don't know. Tell you what, show up for your court hearing and we'll give you back your kid after DNA testing.

 

I think you got the point. You made a generalization of Hispanics being Bud Light drinking litterers, yet fail to credit other races for also being Bud Light drinking litterers. I called you on it. Your anecdotal ethnic experience isn't the norm.

We're not going to agree on this subject because we see people very differently. Unless you are 100% Native American, your family immigrated here. You're not more worthy of being an American than someone else. We are a nation of immigrants, and our diversity is what makes us strong. The only privilege afforded to native born citizens, different from naturalized citizens, is the ability to become President.

I'm almost tempted to ask if you cheer for every American athlete in the Olympics, but I won't.

 

The truth is you don't know whether the birth certificate is verified or not, and I doubt you care. It's not like we don't have laws and procedures that cover this situation because we do. What changed was a DOJ policy, and it has been legally stopped… because it is a violation of human rights, in a country based on the rule of law that protects human and American rights. Your posts read as if you don't want anyone from south of the border to come here, period. If that's not your intention, you might want to phrase things differently.

 

Why? You won't spare me your conservative bushwa. I notice the conservatives on here have gone from using really awful sources for what they say to just using no sources and now just spouting bullshit that really can't be sourced or verified at all. If you just want to vent go to 4chan, there aren't supposed to be "Mexican Hate Threads" on here at all.

 

When most of them don't show up for there court hearing I don't want them here, PERIOD. We don't NEED ANY MORE low educated, non-English speakers into this country. What are they going to do? Join MS 13? They'll be a financial burden on a country with a 21 TRILLION dollar debt. Automation is taking away many of the jobs they're coming here for. It's already happening in agriculture of which I'm right in the middle of. Of course they'll bring in crime, disease and other associated costs beyond their numbers and ability to pay for. There's only so many lawns to mow. Want some examples? They're were good horse breakers, but you can't do it the old fashioned way and most horses are gone in ranching now. Not all, but a lot. They're great at building fences, but that's pretty much automated now and much faster. A rock saw is something you can rent, do the job in a few hours that would take a crew of 10 a week. Plus the rock saw doesn't litter.

 

You're the one that can't verify anything Alex. The number of illegals and their overlarge presence in state and federal prisons is however quite verifiable.

 

Do you have a citation that shows most of them don't show up for their court hearing? Because previous to this new policy, there was a very high percentage of asylum seekers showing up.

One source of data comes from an Obama-era program that released asylees from detention and matched them with case managers who encouraged compliance with court-ordered obligations. As of April, the Family Case Management Program, or FCMP, had 630 enrolled families.

Before the Trump administration ended the program in June, participants had a 100 percent attendance record at court hearings. They also had a 99 percent rate of check-ins and appointments with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to a Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General report.

"According to ICE, overall program compliance for all five regions is an average of 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments, as well as 100 percent attendance at court hearings," the report said. "Since the inception of FCMP, 23 out of 954 participants (2 percent) were reported as absconders."
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ty-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/
​

I don't think robots will be taking care of granny in the nursing home, but if we continue on this tariff jag, agriculture will need more than automation to save it. I'm hearing that the tax payer is going to supplement the farmers that can't sell their soybeans to China. Yay! Less trade and more tax payer funded subsidies because… reasons, but you're worried about how much immigrants cost the economy, when they have been shown to add much more than they take? I find that a bit odd, but you do you.

I've already posted links that refute your suggestion that immigrants cost more than they give to the economy. I've already posted links that refute the idea that immigrants bring crime. In this post, you've got links that show they do show up for their court dates. I get that you don't seem to like Bud Light drinking litterers, but your arguments have been refuted.

 

I don't know where you're getting your data but most don't show up for their hearing. But, they're already robots that are being designed to take care of Granny. Interesting reading and quite doable. I'd really keep up with current events a bit more
But I love non-ag people telling me about ag. The Pecos Valley once grew enough citrus to rival California. Immigrant labor killed it. Now the farmers grow hay in one man automated operations without the high costs of supporting the labor that caused all the social problem. Very soon automation will make the citrus growing profitable again without the need for uneducated labor.

 

And policies are based on law and we pass law to enforce our policies what's your point? We have policies to process those wanting entrance to our country and those are based in the law.

Those are not separated if they apply through a port of entry. Once the person illegally crosses our border it becomes a legal problem and THOSE are the ones that are at issue here stop trying to conflate them with those seeking LEGAL entry and LEGAL asylum.

Cross the border illegally is ILLEGAL, what don't you understand here? And again we separate US CITIZEN families here for a variety of reasons
".....and can cause long lasting, if not permanent, psychological damage to the children. We should be ashamed, as a country, yet people are here defending it.... "

It hasn't been addressed at all just skimmed over as you are trying to do here but I will be happy to look at any specific message numbers. If you are state as a matter of fact that separating families is inhumane and putting children in detention centers is cruel and inhumane then you are going to have to reconcile that with the fact we do it to US CITIZEN families every day.

 

It's just a matter of time till unhinged liberals decide that any prison time is cruel and unusual punishment.

 

"Because aliens who have been caught and then released under the stipulation they show up for a scheduled hearing frequently fail to appear in court. That's the finding of a new report produced by former federal immigration court judge Mark H. Metcalf and published by the Center for Immigration Studies.

In fact, no courts have higher failure-to-appear rates by defendants than U.S. immigration courts, the report found.

Why should this concern us?

These illegal aliens are ignoring immigration court orders to appear without fear of repercussion, leaving them free to run and disappear into the interior of the country. Chances are, they won't be found again, incarcerated or deported. In fact, over the past 20 years, 37 percent of all illegal aliens released pending trial never showed up for court.

According to Metcalf, of the almost 2.5 million aliens released from detention, 918,098 failed to appear in court. Nearly 46,000 aliens disappeared each year rather than appear in court when they were supposed to."
https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/no-more-catch-and-release-illegal-immigrants

And under Obama

• In 2013, ICE charged only 195,000, or 25 percent, out of 722,000 potentially deportable aliens they encountered. Most of these aliens came to ICE's attention after incarceration for a local arrest.
  
• ICE released 68,000 criminal aliens in 2013, or 35 percent of the criminal aliens encountered by officers. The vast majority of these releases occurred because of the Obama administration's prosecutorial discretion policies, not because the aliens were not deportable.
  
• ICE targeted 28 percent fewer aliens for deportation from the interior in 2013 than in 2012, despite sustained high numbers of encounters in the Criminal Alien and Secure Communities programs.
  
• Every ICE field office but one reported a decline in interior enforcement activity, with the largest decline in the Atlanta field office, which covers Georgia and the Carolinas.
  
• ICE reports that there are more than 870,000 aliens on its docket who have been ordered removed, but who remain in defiance of the law.
  
• Under current policies, an alien's family relationships, political considerations, attention from advocacy groups, and other factors not related to public safety can trump even serious criminal convictions and result in the termination of a deportation case.
  
• Less than 2 percent of ICE's caseload was in detention at the end of fiscal year 2013.
  
• About three-fourths of the aliens ICE detained in 2013 had criminal and/or immigration convictions so serious that the detention was required by statute. This suggests the need for more detention capacity, so ICE can avoid releasing so many deportable criminal aliens.

https://cis.org/Catch-and-Release

 

If you have something to say then say it.

 

But don't forget the illegals more than pay for themselves myth.

 

The link is right there, and I've already asked you for a citation that proves otherwise… I got nada.

You don't know me or anything about me. I own a farm, so don't lecture me on farming or what immigrants do for labor. More work in service jobs than in agriculture. Robots are not going to change granny's depends, so they are not going to be automated out of work. Predominately, the jobs in America are high skilled and technical in nature, or low skilled and service in nature. With 6 million unfilled jobs, we need both highly skilled workers and low skilled workers. Heck, even Trump asked for 60+ foreign workers at Mar-a-lago, because he can't find enough American workers at the rate he wants to pay.

 

No, Trump's policy was against the law, and thus stopped by the courts.

I can't put this in your brain, but it needs to go in there…. it is NOT illegal to cross the border, at a place outside a port of entry, if you are seeking asylum. I'm not conflating anything. I quoted you the law. You can either accept it or not, but you can't claim it says something it doesn't. There is no legal problem with crossing the border somewhere besides a port of entry… if you are an asylum seeker. Period. The end. It is not illegal, and is one of the reasons the courts have put an end to Trump separating kids from their families.

It is NOT illegal to cross the border wherever they can find a place to cross, if they are asylum seekers. Digest this fact.

It is inhumane to separate kids from their asylum seeking parents that have done nothing illegal, change their status to "unaccompanied minor" from "asylum seeker", to ship them across the country, and have no plan to reunite them whatsoever. Now, if you can show me an American citizen that has been incarcerated, had their kids taken and reclassified, shipped across the country, and have no contact with the parent, we'll talk about apples and apples. Until you have that example, you're conflating very different situations.

 

They are STILL here illegally if they crossed the border illegally, that they may apply for asylum but that doesn't change the fact they entered illegally and we should hold them if they want to continue to apply and only release them after they are properly vetted and deport them if we so choose and they can apply at a consulate of legal port of entry.

Why do you defend aliens NOT coming here in the proper LEGAL manner?

 

In your mind, differentiate asylum seekers from immigrants, because they are two different categories. Of course illegal people that are going to be deported are going to skip court. I haven't addressed them one time in this thread, other than to say I am not in favor of illegal immigration. What I have been talking about is families seeking asylum, and they show up for their court dates. Pre-Trump, they had a 99% rate of showing up for court dates. I linked and cited the data in another post. You're arguing apples against oranges when you cite stats for all immigrants, legal and illegal, versus asylum seekers. It's like Trump trying to conflate all immigrants as members of MS 13, and no one is buying it.

 

Somebody has already posted the data on illegal aliens showing up for their hearings. Dismal compliance.
I could say the same thing, don't lecture me on ag. It's 30 feet outside my house. I did do the smart thing by leasing out grazing rights rathe than doing it myself.
And yes, they'll be able to change granny's knickers. It's just a matter of time. Never say never and never ever say always.
House cleaning will be the first to go. I've already have a robot that vacuums the floor. Just think what will happen in 10 years.
Already in hospitals medication carts are loaded by automation and transport themselves into place. Patient transport is going the same way. They even have disinfection robots now. Like I said, keep up on current events.
But if you do really have a farm, here's a big hint for the future. A lot of people see a big future in small highly automated, high yield postage stamp farms, especially those that can supply high quality produce to the restaurant market. Some of the Asians are getting this down pretty well. They're using ATV's instead of tractors for machinery. It's more work than I'd like to do, but leasing the property makes more financial sense to me.