U.N. Votes 151-6 to disavow Israeli ties to Jerusalem :0

Who forced them? Those nasty ol' Nazis and the ****ing Russians?

 

Yes.. it wasn't the Palestinians.. so why did the Jewish refugees consider the Palestinians inferior and try to push them out?

 

Europe dumped it's Jew problem on the Mideast by creating the state of Israel. What's done is done and you can't abolish Israel now so accept reality.

 

You just confirmed my original point you are disputing. Palestinian supporters insist that land cant be gained through military conquest, and then insist that the territory conquered by Jordan must stand.

 

They considered them enemies as they had declared war against Israel.

 

I don't think Israel should be abolished.. I think they should stop expanding.

 

They only expand when other countries try to abolish them.

 

My understanding was that the Jews considered it going home and didn't push out anyone until the Arabs started attacking Jews.

BTW, yes, it was the ****ing Nazis and the ****ing Soviets who drove the Jews out of Europe.

 

Agreed. What is, is. The Israelis and other nations have worked for decades to achieve "Peace in the Middle East", but all that's happened is that it turns into a cease-fire while the Arabs rearm and supply Palestinians with rockets and suicide belts. This has been going on so long that those Palestinians who have remained in Gaza and West Bank have formed a death cult where their only life's mission is to kill Jews. Time to try something different.

 

Irrelevant.
It was occupied by non jews for near 2000 yrs.

 

So, we're going by "Possession"? Awesome. Jews win again!

 

I don't think there is any archeological evidence for that.

 

http://embassies.gov.il/pretoria/AboutIsrael/history/Pages/History-Israel-Timeline.aspx
63 BCE-313
CE

Roman rule
63-4 BCE

Herod, Roman vassal king, rules the Land of Israel;
Temple in Jerusalem refurbished

(CE - The Common Era)
c. 20-33 Ministry of Jesus of Nazareth
66 Jewish revolt against the Romans
70 Destruction of Jerusalem and Second Temple.
73 Last stand of Jews at Masada.
132-135 Bar Kokhba uprising against Rome.
c. 210 Codification of Jewish oral law (Mishna) completed.

FOREIGN DOMINATION
313-636 Byzantine rule
c. 390 Commentary on the Mishna (Jerusalem Talmud) completed.
614 Persian invasion

636-1099 Arab rule
691 On site of First and Second Temples in Jerusalem, Dome of the Rock built by Caliph Abd el-Malik.

1099-1291 Crusader domination
(Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem)

1291-1516 Mamluk rule

1517-1917 Ottoman rule
1564 Code of Jewish law (Shulhan Arukh) published.
1860 First neighborhood built outside walls of Jerusalem's Old City.
1882-1903 First Aliya (large-scale immigration), mainly from Russia.
1897

First Zionist Congress convened by Theodor Herzl in Basel, Switzerland; Zionist Organization founded.
1904-14 Second Aliya, mainly from Russia and Poland.
1909 First kibbutz, Degania, and first modern all-Jewish city, Tel Aviv, founded.
1917 400 years of Ottoman rule ended by British conquest;
British Foreign Minister Balfour pledges support for establishment of a "Jewish national home in Palestine"

1918-48

British rule
1919-23 Third Aliya, mainly from Russia
1920 Histadrut (General Federation of Labor) and Haganah (Jewish defense organization) founded.
Vaad Leumi (National Council) set up by Jewish community (Yishuv) to conduct its affairs.
1921 First moshav (cooperative village), Nahalal, founded.
1922 Britain granted Mandate for Palestine (Land of Israel) by League of Nations; Transjordan set up on three-fourths of the area, leaving one fourth for the Jewish national home.
Jewish Agency representing Jewish community vis-a-vis Mandate authorities set up.
1924

Technion, first institute of technology, founded in Haifa.
1924-32 Fourth Aliya, mainly from Poland.
1925 Hebrew University of Jerusalem opened on Mount Scopus.
1929 Hebron Jews massacred by Arab terrorists.
1931 Etzel, Jewish underground organization, founded.
1933-39 Fifth Aliya, mainly from Germany.
1936-39 Anti-Jewish riots instigated by Arab terrorists.
1939 Jewish immigration severely limited by British White Paper.
1939-45 World War II; Holocaust in Europe.
1941 Lehi underground movement formed; Palmach, strike force of Haganah, set up.
1944 Jewish Brigade formed as part of British forces.
1947 UN proposes the establishment of Arab and Jewish states in the Land.

 

Thanks for the history link but "ruling" isn't the same as your claim "occupied by non jews for near 2000 yrs". Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Obviously Christians have been in the area for over 2000 years and Muslims for about 1300 years. Are you saying Jews weren't there? What point are you trying to make other than Jews, Christians and Muslims have been in the area for over a millennia?

 

That's a great post. Thank you. You just confirmed the point that I was making.

 

That isn't actually correct. I used to think that and wonder why on earth Britain, the US and other safe countries did not open their doors wide. It was not until I read 'What Price Israel' that I discovered that an enormous amount of energy had gone into trying to offer alternatives. Even during the war Roosevelt had the idea of offering safety to displaced persons. He came to Britain and Britain said they would take 250,000. The States said they would do the same and they were sure they could arrange it with other countries, I think Canada and South America. The Zionists would have none of it and they were called Antisemetic for even suggesting it. During the UN partition talks it was one of the things they were strongly trying to arrange as they very definitely did not want it to be a situation where they were voting on partition and it appeared that this was the only possible home for surviving Jews. Obviously the Zionists thought the opposite and wanted it to appear as so, so refused any offers. Truman was prepared to go with Roosevelt's plan but the Zionists refused to allow any immigration to the US/UK and so on until ...it could have been the partition statement but I think it was the State of Israel being declared - one or the other.

You may have heard Finkelstein talking about his parents experience in Displaced Persons camps and how they only got to the US because they were both unwell. Apparently at the first vote in one of these camps as to how many Jews wanted to go to Palestine only around 16% did. (I think less) The reason most did not go to other countries as they wished was not because countries which Jews could see as safe would not have them, it was because of the immense pressure put on them. They even stopped a very successful program in the UK where children were being brought for a while so that they could live in a better environment and get over the trauma, run by British Jews.

You would have to buy What Price Israel but there is a free copy of the book an Israeli, Yosef Grodzinsky, did after much research on the displaced Persons camps.

In the Shadow of the Holocaust
The Struggle Between Jews and
Zionists in the Aftermath of
World War II

 

They did that in 1988, and then ceded the land to Israel via treaty in 1991.

 

I read What Price Israel about 1958.. We had a copy in our home since the mid 1950s.

Lilienthal came to Arabia .. I didn't get to meet him, but my parents did.

 

The PLO, not being a state, did not, and does not, have standing under international law, to receive such land.

 

Well you have forgotten all the stuff about offering homes to displaced persons and so on. I read the later copy which came out a few years ago but I think it is mainly the same. One of the things which is good about him is that he was there at the time and I think at that time working in the State Department.

 

I have read it a couple of times since 1958..

The US turned away Jewish refugee ship MS St Louis in 1939.

 

No they ceded it to the PLO in 88. First you try 67 and now 91. I did look up 91 to see if there were any agreements but no just some issues to do with their support for Saddam in the first Gulf war.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/01/w...us-peace-plan-jeopardy-internal-tensions.html

stop dreaming

 

Was I speaking about that?

What I said is correct about Roosevelt's plan, Britain's agreement. Zionists refusal to even look at it calling it antisemetic and what I said about what happened in the UN. We all forget things. It is a shame to have so little humility you cannot admit when you have.

 

Majority of present day jews of Israel are descended from jews who immigrated from other Arab countries or who had lived in Israel for centuries. I wouldn't agree with your characterization of it being a "jew problem" but the Arab world did the same thing.

 

94 the more relevant point on the matter


Annex I (a)

Jordan-Israel International Boundary

Delimitation And Demarcation


1.
It is agreed that, in accordance with Article 3 of the Treaty, the international boundary between the two States consists of the following sectors:

The Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers

The Dead Sea

The Wadi Araba/Emek Ha'arava

The Gulf of Aqaba

http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/peacetreaty.html