Virginia is the front line now

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by BryanVa, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I would be curious how the so called expert produced evidence UBCs had an impact and how (and how much) compliance was achieved without a registration system. The skeptic in me figure if true, every anti gun rag would have broadcast the evidence every chance available. As for claims the assault weapon ban had any impact on mass shootings, that fact would have been noted in the 2013 CDC study and it wasn’t. As usual, it’s not likely votes will be cast on the weight of evidence, but on the basis of political considerations.
    As for the bills, you can post links, but I suspect the NRA-ILA will be posting updates on their site as well.
     
  2. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    in the world politic, everything is exagerated fabrication of unsubstatiated claims to support an agenda... keep thy job by buying votes from what they perceive to be 'the majority'...
     
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of the facts and the inability to demonstrate the necessity and efficacy of the laws in question....

    The Dems have a majority, and will pass whatever is put in front of them, and the governor will sign it.
    Does the VA senate have a filibuster?
     
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  4. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

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    All good points. I guess we'll have to see what happens if they pass.
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    What will happen will be no different than what has been observed in numerous other states. Widespread civil disobedience on the part of the public refusing to comply with whatever firearm-related restrictions are enacted. Law enforcement officials going on record stating that they will not enforce the firearm-related restrictions. And the state being forced to back down and not pursue legal actions and/or consequences against the members of the public who refuse to comply. It is nothing more than empty, meaningless virtue signalling.
     
  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    See: California
     
  7. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yesterday I shipped 11 tower sections to Christian ministry in Belize, the buyer paid me to deliver them to a freight company in Hialeah that ships by ship versus truck.

    When I was I noticed the shipper was overloaded with shipments heading to that part of the world, I commented to the guy entering my shipment into the system "it looks like business is good," his reply was, "damm right, with the cartels down there you cannot get a truck through Mexico without paying the military for protection and even then, they might loot the trailer and kill the driver."
     
  8. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is why if the SHTF-its not law enforcement officers who should be sacrificed
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The real question you should all be asking yourself is why did Virginia swing this way?
    Why, why, why

    And why does this seem to be becoming a long-term trend in many states.

    (Think increasing urbanization and changing demographics)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
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  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    For the simple reason that those who demonstrate dangerous thinking in the united states are not removed from the equation, but instead allowed to multiply and spread their message to others. At one point in the history of the united states such thoughts would be considered sedition and punished severely. Now instead it is openly celebrated and cheered.
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does sound like trading one freedom for another.

    As if maybe there's no inherent escape from this political equation.

    Liberals tried to have "freedom", and in exchange, found they just had more rules, because their "social liberation" made everyone unruly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  12. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    And so it begins. Yesterday was the first day to "pre-file" proposed legislation for the Virginia General Assembly's 2020 session beginning January 8, 2020.

    There are a number of gun bills but I wanted to start with two topics: Universal background checks and "assault firearms."

    There are multiple universal background check bills pre-filed that will make it a felony to transfer a firearm without a background check punishable by up to 5 years in prison. The felony is committed regardless of whether the person the gun is transferred to would have passed the check anyway. An exception exists for transfers between immediate family members.

    And we have a total ban on "assault firearms" proposed. Here is how the statute would define an "assault firearm":

    "Assault firearm" means:

    1. A semi-automatic center-fire rifle that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material with a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 10 rounds;

    2. A semi-automatic center-fire rifle that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the rifle; (iii) a thumbhole stock; (iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand; (v) a bayonet mount; (vi) a grenade launcher; (vii) a flare launcher; (viii) a silencer; (ix) a flash suppressor; (x) a muzzle brake; (xi) a muzzle compensator; (xii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting (a) a silencer, (b) a flash suppressor, (c) a muzzle brake, or (d) a muzzle compensator; or (xiii) any characteristic of like kind as enumerated in clauses (i) through (xii);

    3. A semi-automatic center-fire pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material with a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 10 rounds;

    4. A semi-automatic center-fire pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a thumbhole stock; (iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand; (iv) the capacity to accept a magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (v) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the pistol with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (vi) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; (vii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting (a) a silencer, (b) a flash suppressor, (c) a barrel extender, or (d) a forward handgrip; or (viii) any characteristic of like kind as enumerated in clauses (i) through (vii);

    5. A shotgun with a revolving cylinder that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material; or

    6. A semi-automatic shotgun that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material that has one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a thumbhole stock, (iii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the shotgun, (iv) the ability to accept a detachable magazine, (v) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds, or (vi) any characteristic of like kind as enumerated in clauses (i) through (v).

    "Assault firearm" includes any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert, modify, or otherwise alter a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts that may be readily assembled into an assault firearm. "Assault firearm" does not include (i) a firearm that has been rendered permanently inoperable, (ii) an antique firearm as defined in § 18.2-308.2:2, or (iii) a curio or relic as defined in § 18.2-308.2:2.

    The ban reads as follows:

    "It is unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, purchase, possess, or transport an assault firearm. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 6 felony."

    There is no pretense of a "buyback." The firearm must either be rendered "permanently inoperable" or it must be surrendered. Failure to do so makes the possessor a felon who could receive up to 5 years in prison for having the "assault firearm."

    And there is the following proposed law regarding "high capacity magazines":

    "Any person who imports, sells, barters, or transfers any firearm magazine that is designed to hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor."

    A class 1 misdemeanor is punishable by up to 12 months in jail and an additional fine of up to $2,500.00.
     
  13. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    And to answer a previous question...No, Virginia does not have a senate filibuster.
     
  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Is there are grandfather clause?
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Is it safe to conclude that there will be no prosecutions on the part of yourself relating to violations of the proposed firearm-related restrictions?
     
  16. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    There is no grandfather clause in the bill is currently written (nor was there one in a similar bill proposed in this past summer’s special legislative session). The criminal violation reads this way:

    "It is unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, purchase, possess, or transport an assault firearm. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 6 felony."

    This language is absolute and does not contain any exceptions (although there are other exceptions in other statutes for military and law enforcement possession of these weapons). The way to include a grandfather clause is to have the first sentence end this way: “…assault firearm manufactured on or after XXXX date,” OR to amend the definition of “assault firearm” to read “manufactured on or after XXXX date.” That would “grandfather” protection for already owned firearms.

    But as currently written, this statute is—for “assault firearms” at least—the Virginia equivalent of Ms. Feinstein’s wishful statement “Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in.”

    Every “assault firearm” as defined in the bill would be illegal to possess, regardless of how long you have owned it. If you have a firearm that fits the definition of an “assault firearm” in this bill, and this bill passes and becomes law as written, then you have three options:

    1. Destroy it or in some other manner make it “permanently inoperable,”

    2. Surrender it to the government, or

    3. Keep it and, if found out, be charged with a felony (which, if convicted, carries up to 5 years imprisonment in addition to losing the entirety of your RKBA as a felon)
     
  17. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry but it would be improper for me to speculate about my future law enforcement activity.
     
  18. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    "After months of threats, hoaxes, and fury at the prospect that Virginia’s new Democratic majority might restrict gun rights, the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a pro-gun group politically to the right of the NRA, is planning to descend on the state capital in a major rally on Monday....

    "Despite the rhetoric about gun confiscation and governmental overreach, most of the measures proposed by Democrats are widely supported by Virginians.... the governor says he has received intelligence that some groups that came to Charlottesville for the Unite the Right rally in 2017 will reappear in Richmond. Militia groups across the country have promised to protest in Richmond, dressed in military camouflage and outfitted with sophisticated assault weaponry. White supremacists have been using their internet sites to issue threats and mobilize; similar activity preceded Charlottesville. The Justice Department said Thursday that three men taken into custody by the FBI amid an investigation into the white nationalist group called The Base had weapons and were considering attending the rally in Richmond....

    "January 20 is Martin Luther King, Jr. Day at the Capitol, and it is typically the time when many school children come to see how government operates. Not so this year. Instead, Capitol Square will likely be filled with loud and angry gun advocates claiming that their rights are about ready to be severely compromised by the Virginia General Assembly. State officials are determined to prevent a replay of Charlottesville; whether protesters will cooperate remains to be determined."
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/militia-richmond-virginia-gun-rally.html

    Virginia is going through a transition that many other states will likely go through in the future. Changes are happening that not everyone likes. Let's just hope they can manage to protest peacefully this time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  19. Levant

    Levant Newly Registered Donor

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    This is why Virginia is doomed... And then they came for me...
     
  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Changes that were implemented by out of state politicians who are refusing to mind their own business, and tend to matters where they actually hold jurisdiction.

    Should the state of Texas be allowed by buy politicians in the state of New York to force it to implement changes to firearm-related restrictions that make it more closely resemble other states where one can legally carry a firearm without the need for paperwork?
     
  21. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    In order for me to accept that "banning assault-style" weapons is the end of freedom in the US, I would have to accept the notion that there was no freedom in the US prior to the existence of today's assault style weapons.

    While I support the right of citizens to own guns, is it really worth killing your fellow citizens if the sale of assault-style weapons is banned? There seems to be a segment of our society who prays for a zombie apocalypse just so they can pretend to be the warrior hero of their favorite video game or tv show.
     
  22. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    You know the famous saying, " Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good." If a restriction on the sale of some weapons reduces the number of deaths during school shootings from 50 to 47 - does that make it a "bad" bill?
     
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Assault weapons are already highly regulated and have seldom been used in any crime as such a ban is not called for.

    No you don't, you just claim to, for if you actually supported the RTKBA you would educate yourself and understand the errors in your GCA comments

    Only in the minds of the GCA's, normal people don't think that way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  24. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Normal people don't shoot up a school. Normal people don't join militias and threaten to start fire-fights with law enforcement.
    The world isn't made of only "normal" people, unfortunately.
     
  25. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Once one takes everything into account that the proposed legislation would need to do in order to potentially arrive at this hypothetical, impossible to prove number, it would indeed qualify as being bad. Is saving a few lives from murder worth targeting private individuals with confiscation of private property and the threat of felony convictions for noncompliance, truly a worthwhile trade? How many lives must be ruined in the name of trying to save a few meaningless, insignificant lives, all when the outcome can never be proven?
     

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