Warning, democracy in peril, scholars join national call for federal action to protect elections

Brazil, Phillipines, Turkey, and a few other countries. Russia already full blown fascist.

 

You see, the problem is, your statements right wing dog whistles.

Remove the right wing lens, and we have (hint, it's called 'the truth'):

America has a shortage of labor, farmers are scrambling to get their goods to market, and we need more, not less, immigration.
If conservatives have a tough time getting their message through to new immigrants, they should work harder on the message, and not blame people for their choices of their leaders.

We can track the decline of America directly (as measured by the wage/wealth gap) proportional to the acceleration of neoliberalism and it's 'free market is God' philosophy, brought to the mainstream by Reagan, furthered by subsequent presidents, mostly on the right ( all repub presidents since Reagan were neolibs and Trump is a neolib because of expedience, though parading as a populist for popularity's sake), but Clinton was also a neolib, Obama, not so much, and though, once upon a time, Biden was thought to be a neolib, but his embrace of progressivism clearly has shed that political skin.

Therefore, blaming the right for the decline of America is logical. Hopefully, with the fact that America is slowly shifting to the left, it will be the end of the neoliberal era and neoliberalism ( parading as the new conservatism, 'neocon' ) will be an asterisk in the footnotes of history.

America's economic issues (supply chain interruptions) are due to the pandemic (and extreme climate isn't helping), and you know it. Inflation is due to two unpaid for stimulus bills (spanning Trump and Biden) , unpaid for because of Trump's tax cut.

 

We don't have a shortage of labor. We have a shortage of labor willing to work. I don't understand why so many are unwilling to work, but this is not going to result in the American we should want. A large proportion of Americans content to sit on their butts while we bring in thousands of people to do the work they are fully capable of doing. This trend is not going to end well.

And then we have Biden trying to compound the problem. That lack of passage of the infrastructure bill is not due to lack of republican support. It is badly conceived. Most Americans support a infrastructure bill. However the extreme democrat left wing has tacked on trillions of extra goodies and then will not vote for the bill unless they get everything they want. They are saying that no one will get anything they want unless the left wing gets everything they want. Explain how that is good for America.

 

In farming we do, hence my comment. Americans, no matter how much is offered, are not going to be picking veggies in fields on American farms, no, that ain't gonna happen, ever. This is work for our immigrant friends, whose labor we vastly need, and like yesterday.

The rest of the comment you are correct, but you miss the fact that many are not apply for shitpay jobs, as the working class has gotten the message finally that they can refuse work if the pay is too low. When I was 60, I was about to be trained to be a truck driver, but when they told me my first year I'd only make $500 per week, which is not enough to live on in San Diego, I declined. See, all they have to do is pay people more, at least enough to live on, it's not rocket science. The shortage in the Trucking industry is for one reason and one reason only, the pay is not enough to justify the job.

The infrastructure bill was passed bipartisan in the senate, so you are wrong on that point.

The ONLY reason it is held up in the house is that the house is controlled by the progressive wing, which wants to piggy back it on the BR bill, which they are still negotiating.

As for the 'trillions of goodies', note that we are talking about the difference between $60 Trillion over ten years. sans the bills, versus $62 Trillion over 10 years, with the bills, a difference of 1.2% of the GDP, noting that the both bills are mostly paid for with proposed taxes on billionaires ( and I don't want to hear any bullshit that they can't afford it. Hell, they are the only ones who can afford it ).

And we need everything in both bills.

 

I think we could use more legal immigration. Illegal immigration is merely the importation of future votes and is harmful, not helpful. Immigration and illegal immigration are very different things.

What message would you recommend? We want you to break our laws, enter the country and be subsidized by government? It isn't a message I would provide?

What were you saying about dog whistles?

I think that is ridiculous. You see a decliine in America and want to blame it on a political position? Most historians could explain the cause of any decline to you. It has happened to many world powers. It stems from the people, not the government. You are old enough to have known many people from the "greatest generation." I suspect your parents were part of that group. That those people were replaced by the people we see today should explain it all to you.

No, viruses can have nothing to do with economic issues. The government's response to a virus certainly can. You can't pawn it off on a virus. It is a lame excuse. The problems stem mostly from greedy authoritarian politicians. You know, those "honorable" people you talk about.

 

Yes .. the thought police in Russia are near as bad as in the US in some ways.

 

Fascism was Mussolini's fix for the failure of Socialism to enforce central control of the economy. Fascism was Sander's followers' June 14, 2017 strategy to get free healthcare. Stalinism -- another incantation of Fascism. Nazism, yet another incantation of Fascism with other aspects of the Democratic Party legacy of hatred mixed in.

No surprise, members of the institution that put Hitler on the map would be saying, "Look over there!"

 

You left out the major part of my quote. We are not short of labor. We are short of labor who are willing to work.

People get paid according to their ability and willingness to work. If they want better jobs, they need to work harder and smarter.

I consider it to be pure laziness.

 

I do not allow politicians to control my emotions and am never offended by those that do. He is not the first to contest an election or claim it was stolen and call the winner an illegitimate president. It takes profound levels of gullibility to believe that any politician works in your best interest. Its all about control over the golden goose.

It appears that my view of politicians offends you to the point of resorting to personal attacks.

I live in Los Angeles, where politicians use the constitution as toilet paper. Your statement about me is false.

 

Post the quote.

 

Using your own logic, by attacking trump, you conceded the argument. I never claim to be unbiased as I am absolutely biased against government power.

You are incorrect and I gave you examples you are still running from.

 

That's among the most disingenuous false equivalences I've seen on the board.

 

Those looking through lefty lenses only see what they are looking for. The statement is still true.

 

You've stretched credulity to the breaking point. This comment...... “No, it doesn’t kill me because he knows he’s an illegitimate president,” she said. “I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.”.......made while being asked about Trump's illegal extortion of Zelensky does not come close to the Orange Insurrectionist's gargantuan lie. As I recall, she did not plot with members of the DoJ to steal the election, did not call election officials in numerous states to steal the election, nor did she inspire a violent attack on Congress in order to steal the election.

 

That's not how it works, you're grasping at straws. Attacking the person you're debating is a clear indicator you don't have an argument. I'm debating you, not tRump.

So, you're an anarchist, I believe you.

You gave me "opinions", I chose to not dignify them.

 

You and I are just random guys on the internet with opinions. Feel free to disagree with those who already tried to make this case and failed.

 

Last I heard there are 11 million unemployed people in the US. 4.2 million of them just quit their job just last month. Supposedly to "look for better paying jobs". Claiming that there is a shortage of labor is, at best, ignorance of what is happening.

 

As post #164 illustrates, your opinion on this matter is entirely without merit. Which is not to say I don't don't understand why you feel compelled to hold it. It's consistent with your convoluted world view.

 

I don't see how a reasonable person could read my post as a personal attack. The first priority for both parties is to gain/maintain power. When the constitution gets in the say, it gets reinterpreted.

My argument is that neither party works in your best interest. The constitution is only used when convenient. I live in the Progressive petri dish and can tell you that your party works to erode the constitution. I gave you examples.

I am not an anarchists. If you want to know my position, you can just ask.This chart shows where I fall on the political scale:

 

The only thing in peril may be the two major parties monopoly over our political system as independents continue to rise and the two major parties shrink. But have no fear, Republicans and Democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there's one thing both major parties agree on, it's no viable third party will ever rise.

As long as our two major parties continue their monopoly, we'll never have a true democracy with multiple choices. The idea is to limit choices to two which each party owing their hearts and souls to corporations, wall street firms, lobbyist, special interests and mega money donors. That's where they get their tens and hundreds of millions of dollar to run their organizations and campaigns.

No, we have a monopolistic democracy, run and operated by the two major parties. But don't worry, the two major parties will do all that possible to ensure their monopolistic democracy. Very limited realistic choices is what our democracy is all about. A or B and no one or anything else.

 

You talk about the parties as if they are an abstraction. The way many people talk about the government. When you say the Dem party wants to gain/maintain power what you are describing is individual members seeking to put forth a policy platform that appeals to a majority of Dems in order to move the country forward. Gaining power is not an end in itself, it's a means to an end.

 

There is nothing convoluted about my point of view. Its simple. Every word/action from a politician is for the purpose of gaining/maintaining power. Their job is to convince you they will work in your best interest. Once they are in power, results show otherwise.

The letter by their name makes no difference.

 

@Patricio Da Silva

If you really want to defeat Trump’s narrative about elections being rigged and stolen, there is one way you could do that:

You and the Democratic Party lead the charge in adopting procedures to lock down the integrity of our elections. Quit resisting them and lead the charge.

THAT is how you do it.

If you don’t, your entire narrative looks utterly empty and dishonest. The amount of resistance you got on this thread is evidence of that, btw.

 

Results do not support your position.

 

Trump made the charge up.

By acquiescing, we give credence to the charge.

If republicans can't understand they are victims of brainwashing, nothing we can do will change their viewpoint, which has been implanted in their brains by that master conman, Trump.

Evidence of that fact is that the AZ audit proved Biden won, and yet they still cling to that view. All elections have 'irregularities' and the vast majority of them are innocent events of one kind or another. However, despite that innocence, Trump will continue to claim 'something's wrong' continue to implant the idea that Democrats are cheating. What, you actually believe that these audits, even if they prove that Biden won, are going to change the narrative? You really believe he is going to change the narrative when his funding depends on it?

You must really think we are stupid.

Besides, the 'audits' are NOT about proving anything, and their outcomes are NOT the objective, they are tools for donation solicitations because Trump's income is waning and he needs money. Note that he hasn't formally declared he is going to run. And he won't do that for a long time because that way his donations can go to his 'leadership PAC' which, by law, allows him to keep all the money for whatever he wants to spend it on. IF he were to declare his candidacy, at the juncture the money would have to go to a political PAC, which he'd only be allowed to spend it on campaign expenses.

I'm wondering why you haven't figured that out.

one thing I learned a long time ago, when a bully, demagogue, or otherwise idiot of one variety or another attacks you, the correct thing to do is not deal with that person on his or her terms, by their narrative.

Do that, and you'll lose every time.