'We can't hide from it': See Gillette's razor-sharp ad about toxic masculinity

And this is a discussion about it. Not sure where you got the idea that it's running my life, that's a rather bizarre statement.

 

Toxic masculinity is the phenomenon of certain concepts that people have of what it means to be a man being destructive concepts. Beating up "sissies," harassing women, expecting men to stay silent about sexual or domestic abuse because they are supposed to be the "tough ones," excusing "boys will be boys" behavior, etc.

 

If you rewatch the ad, you will see that several of the behaviors vilified in it are not toxic, just masculine. Other behaviors are absurd caricatures in the way we have become accustomed to men being unfairly caricatured for FIFTY YEARS. Boys roughhouse, it's perfectly healthy and even necessary to learn boundaries and even cooperation. Healthy men across the country grew up wrestling, playing rough touch football and basketball, and the way the ad presents that is so slanted and biased that even someone like you should be able to admit it. Men approach women and offer to buy them drinks; there is nothing wrong with it. I can't count on five fingers the women who complained to me, "but you didn't even fight for me, didn't chase me" in the face of her atrociously bad behavior that led to me taking a walk. If women go out in public half naked, people are going to say things, and ironically, a majority of those things will be said by women. A vast majority of the unpunished "bullying" done "out there" is done by women. Bullying of the types men do is already illegal and seriously punished via various criminal statutes. Somehow, though, it's male bullying that makes it into the ad.

The behaviors in the video are so over the top cloying and stereotypical as to be a farce... just without a hint of humor. But you and everyone reading this thread knows this full well already.

 

Men are not the problem. Some concepts about what it means to be "manly" are the problem. Anyone who is shamed by these observations needs to ask themselves why they can't conceive of being a man without these things. If they can conceive of being a man apart from harassing women, beating up gays, etc., then there is nothing there to shame them.

We should. That's why I brought up gentlemen. And did you watch the video until the end?

I have. There's plenty of honey in the video.

No one is saying "men are bad." The video shows several good men.

If you are concerned about behavior, the correct response is to criticize bad behavior and praise good behavior. I don't know why anyone would be offended by that fact.

 

Only if you think it's condemning your own behavior.

Is it?

 

I've watched the video. Most of the behaviors "vilified" deserve to be. As far as "caricatures" and "cloying" go, name one thing in the video that hasn't actually happened. Hell, a lot worse has happened than that. Yes, you can buy a woman a drink. No one is saying you can't. Yes, boys can roughhouse, but they also need to learn how to solve their problems with fighting.

 

“Toxic masculinity.”

The idea, which has taken root in popular culture, originally started as a concept along the lines of what Olivia Petter once wrote in "The Independent": That toxic masculinity “dictates that men should be stoic and strong, both emotionally and physically,” and recognizing that as a problem provides men an opportunity to rethink “what it means to be a man today, and what is generally expected of them by society.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw0kYFe9LiYwrI_VHsxwSffb&ust=1547758995948886

See one there isn’t even a concrete definition of this word that should tell you it’s not real. Men should be strong and stoic but it’s like everything in life only in moderation. There seems to be this trend that people have to re invent the way evolution made us or reinvent the wheel so to speak.

Evolution made us this way yes there are ***** men and women because they can’t moderate their behavior not because of their gender. ***** women are a problem as well yet even pointing it out is a huge no no in media. Instead the media cover for their behavior that should be called out hell even glorifying it with movies like bad moms and such.
Apparently men are so powerful were the only ones who can fix societal ills.

 

Shaming tactic.... that’ll show him

 

Worth repeating, even if the word "progressive" is going to trigger people.

 

It's insulting because they attribute these things to men. Men are the ones who stop it

 

You posted..."Because it says this is what masculinity is". Seems you are letting it run your life based on that comment.

 

A comment equals running your life? I comment on many things.

 

Like using the saying boys will be boys as an indicator of a problem... please it’s a term that was made after years of humans observing male child development. If that’s a problem take it up with biology and evolution. People are so bored in this society with nothing for them to make their marks on history that they are trying to re write 100’s of years of human behavior

 

If you can find anyone who disagrees with the definition I provided, let me know. Until then, it isn't a complex concept. There are men who are ***** in part because they think that is part of what it means to be a man. No one is claiming that women can't be terrible too. No one. Complaining about that is like complaining about someone raising money for cancer "Because there are other diseases too, you know!"

Evolution isn't an excuse for a man to be an ass.

You are still stuck in your straw man that "toxic masculinity" means that men are bad. All I can say is that's a comprehension problem.

 

"Boys will be boys" is definitely an indicator of a problem. It has been used to excuse everything from physical assault to attempted rape. Yes, those things are bad things. Yes, "boys will be boys" mentality has been used to sweep it under the rug. No, evolution is not an excuse for physical assault and attempted rape. Once again, it all turns back to subjecting men to the soft bigotry of low expectations because having any expectations for adult behavior is somehow "offensive" to some.

 

You really expect use to believe you've never criticized anyone else's behavior? Really? You don't seem to have a problem using a "shaming tactic" against Gillette. Shouldn't you be using honey instead of vinegar?

 

Except for the magnitude of each, I totally agree. Toxic behavior is toxic behavior regardless of the labels.

 

You ever hear the term toxic femininity used at all or on the same frequency of toxic masculinity?

 

The "angry" shaming tactic (coming from the Orangemanbad side perpetually enraged DAILY especially... that's a hoot... on this forum) doesn't work any more either, any more than the "small penis," "you just can't get a woman," "someone must have hurt you" and a couple dozen usual suspect other things that LW feminist women (and effeminate LW men) say when they want to signal their intellectual inferiority and inability to reason logically to the broader adult world.

Someone earlier in the thread used the immature term "incel." Here's a far better, funnier use of that net-kiddy appellation:



Especially telling in exposing P&G's insincerity near the end of the video, something I touched on earlier in the thread.

 

In your mind does commenting about the lack similar female directed ads mean i am shamed? It’s a way to shut down debate that’s all

 

Listen to the men who want to beat women cry because they are told, "no."

 

I hear cancer talked about more than I hear other diseases talked about . . . and? "That's not fair" is rarely a good start to an argument, imo. It has more to do with complaining than actually addressing the facts.

 

Your jumping to the worst case scenario where that term would be used and easily the least common. Is that a subconscious thing? See men have had low expectations yet history says men invented most things civilized most cultures and fought most wars...., all with low expectations

 

If you have a problem with it, don't shame them, use "honey" and talk nice to them and complement them until you get what you want. Never criticize them, no matter how badly they might be behaving, because shaming is bad. That seems to be the prescription you've given regarding toxic masculinity, so use it on Gillette. Or, you know, recognize there is nothing wrong with criticizing bad things.

 

There are Jews, blacks, gays, etc. who engage in bad outlier behavior. Glad to hear you would have no problem with the following used as the premise of television ads and broader cultural messaging:

Toxic Jewishness
Toxic Gayness
Toxic Blackness
Toxic Whiteness
Toxic Wealthy
Toxic Poor
Toxic ...

Go ahead, rationalize that. Or just stick a fork and fess up that the whole notion of toxic genitalia, race, etc. is ridiculous, discriminatory twaddle used with aplomb by hypocrites who would and do howl like scalded cats the very INSTANT they become offended over some minutiae of the type men have been pilloried with for decades.