Why are the Democrats opposed to the Bidens testifying?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by AmericanNationalist, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I'm being serious here: Why would the Democratic side be opposed to the Bidens testifying? The justification they give, is that Joe/Hunter don't have relevant information regarding Trump's actions in Ukraine. And this is true.

    They do however have information regarding their OWN activities in Ukraine, which was center and front of Trump's actions. If they are able to testify under oath that all of their various activities were on the up and up, it would be a very damning drawback to Trump's argument that he was inclined to investigate a national security issue(wherein a former VP may have engaged in a quid pro quo to protect his son.).

    The Bidens's testimony could very well actually win the case for the Democrats. If they can conclusively proof their own lack of wrongdoing, the onus goes straight onto Trump. Especially if they were made aware to the DOJ and others that there was "no there, there."

    The Democrats need to prove two things beyond a reasonable doubt:

    1) That Trump elicited to pressure the Ukrainians to open up the investigation.

    Or

    2) That Trump never had a legal basis to investigate to begin with(Just like the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane)

    The Bidens are very much material to #2, and it's a much easier avenue for Democrats to win.
     
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  2. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Well-Known Member

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    According to Democrat logic, Biden not testifying means he must be hiding something.
     
  3. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Could be at this juncture. I mean, it's not rocket science to say 'If Biden's clean, then Trump has no basis'. They should be thrilled to have him testify.
     
  4. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If ypu want to investigate the Bidens feel free to do so — another persons trail is not the place to do it however. The Bidens guilt or innocence has nothing to do with trumps trial.

    trump should testify however.
     
  5. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    It's not necessarily about determining the guilt or innocence of the BIden's(that happens to be a secondary matter-of-fact), it's about establishing whether or not there was a valid reason to suspect the Bidens. And the Bidens clearly have relevant information on their OWN actions, that would either establish or destroy that predicate.

    This is the same reason why if Comey were smart, he would have taken the interview with US Person Carter Page, before the FISA application. If the Biden's are on the up and up, then essentially by investigating a rumor(that's false), Trump did the same thing the FBI did in Crossfire Hurricane.
     
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  6. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whether the Bidens are guilty or not is irrelevant to the impeachment trial.
     
  7. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    How is the POTUS' motive and rationale for investigating the Bidens not relevant to the impeachment trial? It is perhaps the most relevant issue in the entire hoax.
     
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  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is the methods he used.
    If he would have launched a broad anti-corruption into all nations receiving aid and it just happened to implicate the Biden’s then he would not be in the situation he finds himself in. Instead he used backchannel and non-government officials in an attempt to investigate the Bidens in order to smear the name of one of his potential presidential rivals by the threat of withholding funds that had been appropriated by congress to that nation.
     
  9. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Donor

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    What possible relevance would either Biden have to the Trump impeachment trial? The answer is none. Would either have any relevant information regarding Trump's correspondence with Ukraine? Would they have any information that would exonerate or convict Trump? Would either have any knowledge of Trump's dealings with Giuliani et. al.? Would they have any information about the matter at hand at all? What would their "testimony" be? I don't know, I have no knowledge of that, I have no idea, I don't know this person, etc,

    If one is all head up about bringing either Biden to court, name your charges, convene a Grand Jury, and (if the Grand Jury recommends) go to trial.
     
  10. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    None of the above is responsive to my post or addresses that the Bidens' actions in Ukraine necessarily inform motive for a POTUS (ANY POTUS) to inquire into those actions. The whole first count hinges on motive and intent.
     
  11. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Because they aren't the ones on trial, nor are they fact witnesses for this trial.
     
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  12. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Well, seeing as Trump routed this through his *personal* lawyer, and that same *personal* lawyer already admitted on national television that the "investigation" was for Trump's *personal* benefit and not for the US . . . I'd say his motives were probably personal. Besides, unless you are suggesting the Biden's have ESP or had conversations with Trump about this, they can't testify to his motives.
     
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  13. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anyone not knowing the motive or the intent are either cognitively deficient or a partisan hack.
     
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  14. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    This is like allowing motive evidence in any criminal trial to only the defense or prosecution... not a bit different. Unjust on its face, regardless of whether it's an actual legal trial or not. The principles of justice do not only apply to formal legal proceedings.
     
  15. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    As a Democrat, I'm not opposed to investigating the Hunter Biden affair, but I do oppose allowing Trump & his minions using that as just another distraction to shift attention away from Trump's criminal activities. If you want to investigate the Bidens, then do it, but keep it separate unto itself. But continue with the Trump impeachment & allow all the new evidence of wrongdoing, along with new witnesses (from both sides) to offer insights into the whole affair, to keep it fair & honest in the trial.
     
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  16. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Anyone denying or advocating to deny the rights of ANY accused ANYWHERE in ANY proceeding to call whatever reasonably relevant witnesses they desire to include in their defense is a creepy, tyrannical, authoritarian POS rationalizing kangaroo courts and show trials. I sincerely hope that neither you nor any of your family or friends are ever the victims of such.

    Anyone interested in a fictional but brilliant account of this process, human nature, 20th century political history, politics generally and justice generally should read Koestler's "Darkness At Noon," a book I recently reread due to abnormalities in impeachment procedure and am glad I did. It is cram-packed with valuable insights. It is at least as good as anything Orwell ever wrote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  17. Moonglow

    Moonglow Banned

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    Stop trying to make this impeachment about the Bidens when it is Trump who is on trial.
     
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  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's what Trump wants. He thinks his trial can be sidetracked by the Biden testimony. The Democrats don't wish to cooperate with the accused President.

    Personally, I hope the Bidens do testify along with the whistleblower. Their testimony will prove what a fool Trump has been. Neither Biden committed a crime. Neither Biden is involved in corruption. The Bidens may be guilty of poor judgment, but that is neither a crime or an act of corruption. The whistleblower's complaint was approved by the intelligence I.G. appointed by Trump.
     
  19. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Stop trying to deny the rights of an accused to mount a reasonable defense that includes any witnesses they care to call.
     
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  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Why are the Democrats opposed to the Bidens testifying?"

    want to investigate the Biden's do it, but this is Trump's investigation\trial, not the Biden's

    the Biden's have zero knowledge of what Trump did in Ukraine, maybe call Nunes
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  21. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Biden nor his activities have anything to do with the defense.
     
  22. Moonglow

    Moonglow Banned

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    Their defense better be based on why they obstructed Congress and withheld aid for personal gain.....And I don't see the Bidens as a reason for Trump to violate the law because he wants to get re elected. What happened with the Bidens is pre what Trump did and doesn't enter into the motives for committing a crime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  23. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    As a matter of irrefutable legal fact and not opinion that's not your call to make.
     
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  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    a defendant can't call anyone they want, it has to be relevant to the case, Trump could spend the next 20 years calling witnesses at random if that were the case

    Trump can call his staff to testify for him if he wants or testify himself
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  25. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have presented zero legal fact.
    If someone has committed a crime and you find out about it so you kill them, does the fact that they committed a crime have anything to do with whether or not you killed them? Or the methods used?
     
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