Why More White Men Are Dying From Gun Suicides

A churlish effort. This issue, given the damage for so many families, deserves better than your trolling.

 

Why do you insist on constructing argument around untruth? I refer directly to the primary research. I've always done that. Crikey, its something we were taught in secondary school. It was a difficult task back then mind you, so no excuses!

Claim? I've merely described the evidence: gun prevalence increases suicide rates; gun control reduces suicide rates. I appreciate, for an ideologue, the research is a uncomfortable read. Is that why you haven't read it?

What jargon is that then? Perhaps you really want to throw in random charges of heteroscedasiticity to somehow sideline the research?

 

The CDC has studied gun violence since the alleged "shutdown".

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

" When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.

They were here to examine gun violence."
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/us/cdc-gun-violence-wilmington.html

If the CDC were fully funded to study gun violence, what in your wildest dreams would those studies find, and how would those studies overturn the Constitutional protections extended to firearms ownership?

 

Regardless of the validity of any findings, this would still not empower the State to violate the rights of citizens without due process.

 

Asinine strawman duly noted and ignored for obvious reasons.

Did you actually read your own links?

Because if you had read the 2nd one you would have seen the answers to your question as to what it DID find.

Ever noticed the PARALLELS between what the Tobacco Lobby was doing and what the NRA Gun Culture is doing?

Both of them DENY the actual HARM that was being caused to We the People.

Both of them used FALSE STUDIES to OBFUSCATE the facts about the actual HARM that was being caused to We the People.

Both of them focused on PROFITS to corporations and willing to BUY OFF politicians in order to pursue their nefarious agenda that kills We the People.

So what ended up happening to the Tobacco industry once the FACTS were made public?

What makes you believe that the Firearms industry is going to get away with doing the exact same thing?

 

Red Flag laws do NOT violate any rights because the due process is built into the process.

I recommend that you do some research because the courts have UPHELD Red Flag laws as constitutional.

 

You've lost your ability to discuss the topic at hand in a credible & sensible manner or support your assertions by attempting to ridicule my 3 legitimate DGUs & minimize the very real DGUs of others.
.
Because you have not had a single legitimate DGU does not mean that they are not plentiful(1) especially among individuals who work, study, travel through & live in the real world.

According to "Battle3" in Post # 368 you have already been provided with links to the CDC data yet continue to knowingly repeat falsehoods.

Therefore, I see little point in continuing an exchange with an individual who resorts to puerile ridicule, knowingly repeats falsehoods & will not accept very basic facts.


(1) "Unpublished CDC Study Supports Claim Of Over 2 Million Yearly Defensive Gun Uses"
http://truthinmedia.com/unpublished-cdc-study-2-million-yearly-defensive-gun-uses/
EXCERPT "An unpublished study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) supports Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck’s claims from his 1990s study that indicated there were more than two million defensive handgun uses (also known as DGUs) per year in the United States."CONTINUED

 

Which part of the term "UNPUBLISHED" needs to be explained?

Why did the CDC NOT publish those alleged findings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

Why would the CDC publish a load of bovine feces that was exposed as having ZERO credibility and NOT based upon factual data?

Since that is ALL that you have to support your bogus allegations about DGU's your tacit concession of your position is accepted.

Have a nice day!

PS don't believe anything that battle3 posts without doing your own research first. I debunked his allegations just like I have debunked yours. The CDC had sound reasons NOT to publish that crap.

 

Didn't they punish this "crap" in 2013?

Are there any published numbers on DGUs you accept

 

Man, everything you just wrote is the biggest load of revisionist history ever plopped in a toilet.

The CDC was shut down from studying so-called "gun violence" because they published a study that was proven to be FALSE, full of cooked numbers and baked statistics driven by a political agenda, and a bipartisan commission stripped them of funding for gun issues as a result.

What is "nefarious" is the actions of the gun banners, who lie and twist the facts, or ignore inconvenient facts altogether. You are pushing a morally bankrupt, corrupt agenda to destroy Constitutional rights and freedoms, and there are people who will continue to fight back against you and yours.

And nobody knows more about "hissyfit stomping" than leftist gun haters! That's all y'all have, and your attempts to project those epic failures on others are nothing short of laughable.

 

No, that is not "ALL" I have to support the fact that there are millions of DGUs per year in the US

For example, you conveniently omitted salient information for your own source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use
EXCERPTS" Different authors and studies employ different criteria for what constitutes a defensive gun use which leads to controversy in comparing statistical results.
In 1997 NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[4] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2]"CONTINUED

Meanwhile, Gun Control proponent, Marvin Wolfgang states that he cannot fault the methodology of Kleck & Gertz:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use
EXCERPT "Marvin Wolfgang, who was acknowledged in 1994 by the British Journal of Criminology as ″the most influential criminologist in the English-speaking world″,[17] commented on Kleck's research concerning defensive gun use: "I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. [...] The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well."CONTINUED

So, apparently, it is only you & fellow Gun Banners who reflexively reject the findings of Kleck & Gertz also ignore other research that reports well over 1 million DGUs per year.

 

I would say that it depends on the wording of the law, and I wasn't limiting my statement to just red flag laws.

 

DGU's are exceptionally rare events IMO. Nothing remotely like the millions fallaciously alleged by the gun advocates. The reality is that criminals who use guns are not looking to get into a shoot out but rather to intimidate and get away as quickly as possible. That means that they use the element of surprise which does not give anyone who possesses a firearm the opportunity to get their hands on it. Only a fool tries to go for their gun when there is one already pointed at them.

That only leaves a very small subset of crimes where the gun owner might be able to get to their gun in time but even then waking up in the middle of the night, dazed and confused, to hear someone breaking in the odds are the criminal will have taken what he wanted and be gone before the gun owner makes it to the door of the bedroom.

So we end up with domestic violence where an abused spouse manages to use a firearm to defend herself. Yes, this does happen but it is nowhere near the "millions" and probably, at most, in the thousands.

I have yet to see anything that meets the criteria of factual and credible in this regard but I suspect that when we do the figure is going to be a great disappointment to those who believe this NRA canard about DGU's.

 

Thank you for that example of hissyfit footstomping denialism.

 

Even antigun researchers like Hemenway and Cook have owned up to higher numbers that a few thousand, so your feelings really don't matter.

The numbers aren't important anyway, as the right to keep and bear arms doesn't depend on the count of defensive gun uses.

 

The CDC decided NOT to publish that load of bovine excrement because it lacked credibility and failed to meet the standards for legitimate research. The CDC has credibility and when they do get around to publishing their findings I will be interested to see how close their numbers are to my own estimates.

Very few people outside of the military and law enforcement have ever had to deal with a situation where they need a gun in order to defend themselves.

I had the benefit of using a police interactive situational training simulator involving firearms. There is a sound reason why the cops take the actions that they do and it always involves CONTROLLING the situation in order to AVOID the use of firearms.

Compare that to the wannabe OK Corral gun slingers of today with their concealed carry who need to come up with a bogus justification for walking around with a firearm. They desperately WANT there to be a situation that gives them a reason to pull out their gun. If it doesn't happen then they are not going to admit that they have never needed to do so. Instead they will make something up.

And make no mistake if there were "millions of DGU's" every year do you think that it would not be noticed and commented upon by the general public? Someone was picking up their morning latte and good guy with a gun stopped the place from being robbed. Someone was walking back to their car at the mall and a good guy with a gun stopped a car thief. Someone was at an ATM and a good guy with a gun prevented a little old lady from being mugged. Why is this not all over social media if it is happening "millions" of times every year? Why is no one in the general public noticing these DGU incidents?

Because they are NOT happening, that is why!

 

Yes, we can punish them, just learn from the history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod

 

So your science is based on "if it's on social media"?

Why do you think that the numbers matter one single bit?

 

According to the VPC, there are 67400 defensive gun uses per year.
The VPC numbers, as we know, are reliable and accurate.

 

See post # 353.

 

See post # 353.

 

See post # 353.

 

Thanks for the laugh but the good folks at VPC said that my DGUs didn't count because one was during a "Leap year"

Meanwhile, please feel free to read on for further amusement:

"Why Does the Anti-Gun Camp Need to Lie?"
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/01/why_does_the_anti-gun_camp_need_to_lie.html
EXCERPT "If the truth were on the side of the enemies of the Second Amendment, they would not need to lie to the public along with fellow members of Congress.

The Brady Campaign Speaks with Forked Tongue

The Brady Campaign has a long track record of using distorted statistics to deceive the American people, including well-meaning donors of 501(c)(3) tax-exempt money. Consider, for example, the Brady Campaign's statement that a firearm in the home is 43 times as likely to kill a family member as a violent criminal. The Brady Campaign, therefore, wants us to believe that gun owners shoot family members in fits of rage, when the truth is very different."CONTINUED

 

- Someone - here believes the VPC numbers are credible.

 

I notice you desperately try to dodge the 2 CDC studies which prove you wrong. Why are you here? Clearly not to be educated or converse. Probably you are paid to post here. Probably by the VPC?