Why would I worship and love a "God" who ordered infanticide?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Gorn Captain, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It does mean the children were murdered for the sins of their parents. If the Israelites could have spared repentant individuals, then they could have spared individuals too young to repent. Again, there were other wars where God supposedly ordered children to be spared. The "there were no other options" defense is one of the weakest ones.
     
  2. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    The OP condemns a Bible verse, but yet supports abortion. Ah liberal, atheistic hypocrisy at its finest.

    Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood:

    "The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."

    "Give dysgenic groups [people with “bad genes”] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."

    "Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."​
     
  3. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you tell God that when you meet Him? I think you'll be thinking of other things. As I said before, sin impacts innocent people, as with these children and aborted children. They will be judged individually, and IMHO they are below the age of accountability. Note David saying his infant son would go to heaven.
     
  4. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    The detractors condemn abortion, but supports infanticide in the Bible. A Biblical, theistic hypocrisy, at its finest.
     
  5. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    No kidding, they are obsessed with the Amalakites but oblivious to 50,000,000 aborted kids in the US alone.
     
  6. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    I guess abortion IS "okay"....with you, since you say aborted fetuses go straight to Heaven. In fact, isn't it SAFER for a fetus to be aborted....as it concerns their "immortal soul"?

    If the fetus develops and is delivered...and then grows up....and becomes "unsaved".....they go to Hell? So abortion makes sure they don't risk damnation....

    uh....right?

    Were the Amalekite children pre-destined to hate Israel? If so, they had no Free Will.

    If not, then God ordered them slaughtered and thus TOOK AWAY their chance at becoming nice people who were friendly towards Israel.

    Which was it?

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    Was God moral or immoral in ordering the slaughter of the Amalekite babies and children?

    Try to answer that question and not contradict something you believe.

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    They use the same Bible to claim "God hates abortion".....that has God ordering the slaughter of not just children, but actual born babies....

    and claim God was "moral and righteous" in doing it.

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    And you justify the deliberate slaughter of Amalekite children on orders from the God of the Bible.....

    yet claim to be "pro-life".
     
  7. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    If he gets his point across with violence and threats instead of reason and justice, as you are implying here, then he is not worthy of consideration. If he tortures me to get me to think differently, then any change of heart will be due to personal weakness, not the strength of the argument.

    "Sin impacts innocent people" is a dismal excuse for punishing innocent people for someone else's sins. It's like arguing that the existence of gravity excuses me throwing a child out of a window. Gravity impacts people, so what have I done wrong? There is a world of difference between "(*)(*)(*)(*) happens" and "It's okay to cause (*)(*)(*)(*)". People die of disease, that doesn't mean you should kill people by purposefully infecting them with disease. People drown, that doesn't mean you should hold their head underwater. People fall, that doesn't mean you should push them. People go hungry, that doesn't mean you should steal their food. People suffer for because of their parents, that doesn't mean you should punish them because of their parents.

    If judging individually is a good thing (and I think it is), then it would have been the appropriate thing to do from the beginning.
     
  8. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    It's not my place to judge God.
     
  9. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    After reading hundreds of your 25,000 posts, I can safely say that Jesus' minions have no effective rebuttals to the super-logical questions that you are constantly posing to them. It almost pains me, as a caring human being, to see them twist their logic to try to have their answers conform to the fairy tale that Jesus taught them. It's sad, but I know ultimately very helpful for them. I wish you had been around years ago when I was a fairytailist.
    Keep up the good work.

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    Jesus, you've failed to create moral followers, as many of them (not just picking on KSig) can't make simple moral judgments, as this forum has shown over and over again.
     
  10. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus certainly violates that rule, because it's very very hard for, say, a Hindu child to think outside of the belief system that their (Hindu, say) parents and Hindu society have impressed on them. So Jesus will see that they get tortured along with the, say, Muslims in the same situation. Jesus COULD allegedly speak to Hindu/Muslim children in a language that they understand readily, but he didn't.
     
  11. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Move to a higher moral plain (Modern Secular Humanism), and you'll have the moral self-confidence to make said judgments. I can say that god was immoral to have them killed.
     
  12. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    You actually mean that by judging god you'd probably come to the conclusion that you are more moral than he is (YOU don't kill innocent people, for example), and that would be too scary to you in regards to your plans regarding the "after-life". Just sayin.
     
  13. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    And how am I immoral?
     
  14. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Oh, but you can judge other people?

    You're another "pro-lifer"...who thinks God can kill children and babies and still be "moral".

    And you accuse OTHERS of hypocrisy?
     
  15. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Stupid atheism at its finest.

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    God is not "other people".
     
  16. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    "I can't condemn the slaughter of thousands of innocent people!", which is what you are basically saying, is no more ethical than a person who says "look, who am I to judge whether Bin Laden was right or wrong masterminding 9/11, I don't want to judge!".
    I'm glad we have intellectually brave people like Gorn Captain, and Sam Harris, leading the way into this greatest-of-all centuries.
     
  17. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Maybe "immoral" is not the very best word to describe someone who can't make moral decisions, but maybe "intellectually and morally cowardice" is. I don't know.

    A person who can't make moral judgments, at least not very good ones, at times, would be that "Jesus" character, who saw slavery all around him, but was too immoral to take a mere few seconds out of his entire lifetime to say this to his followers: "write this down, slavery is wrong, I want it ended ASAP."

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    Neither is Thor, or Zeus, or Krishna, or Santa Claus.
     
  18. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Sort of like the story of the universe's creation in Genesis is just "symbolism", and not to be taken literally - say the more scientifically advanced members of Christianity, but the "Resurrection" is NOT symbolical and is to be taken literally. The validity of ONE of those stories, they feel, will directly impact their shot at an after-life, but one story will not....so guess which story is just "symbolical", and which one is to be taken literally!?
     
  19. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    It's a paradox.

    Either the Bible is NOT accurate and the story of the Amalekite genocide and infanticide was just "made up by the Israelites to justify their slaughter by claiming God said to do it."

    or the Bible IS accurate...and God is a genoicidal even infanticidal sociopath.


    The first means the Bible is full of stuff that is false....but that means not just the Old Testament, but even the New Testament is suspect for being inaccurate or even false.

    The second portrays the "loving and merciful God" as a monster, for which there is no excuse.


    There is no third option.
     
  20. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Silly atheist, of course there is!!!! "Well, you just don't understand because you don't have FAITH". :)
    To the religious mind, the "Faith Card" (a sort of celestial "get-out-of-jail-free card") always trumps logic, reason, and common sense.....always.
     
  21. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    You also notice how when stumped for answers....or when they get angry at nobody accepting their illogic even factual inaccuracies....

    90% of the "Bible Believers" .....violate Paul's Epistle to Titus 3:2...and engage in ad hominems and personal insults. (It's why they will never quote THAT verse of the Bible.)
     
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you watch this video from the two minute mark onward it gives a good explanation as to why the Caananites were decreed to be executed by Israel.
     

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