WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

That "miniscule portion" argument has yet to be made. To make it, you would have to actually put them side-by-side, which you are openly arguing against by saying we shouldn't compare the two.

hint: we compare them because it shows the lack of any principles. where are your principles?

X colluded with foreign country Y, therefore X should be put in prison.

That would be a principle. Yet, you are saying that hillary and trump and obama and roosevelt are not all the same. That there is some distinguishing difference between all of them, so we shouldn't judge them all on the same moral/legal basis.

Stop pretending that they are different because they aren't. They're all held to the same standard as far as I'm concerned. I just finished pointing this out to somebody who thinks that because there are political opponents, then they are to be judged differently from normal people.

You guys need to stop pretending there are separate categories of citizen and rethink your position because you are losing this, and losing badly.

 

I think the reason Trump and his supporters are so obsessed with Hillary is that they just can't get over the fact that she beat them in the last elections.

 

BostonGlobe.com, "Appeals court reinstates emoluments case against Trump - The Boston Globe," 14 Sep. 2019
Luke Johnson, Fortune, "Investigations into Trump’s Businesses Spark Emoluments Questions," 11 Sep. 2019

A favor is a gift.

 

It is not a waste of time if there are legitimate grounds. Just because the Senate doesn't impeach does not mean the exercise itself is a waste of time.

The question is one of "legitimate grounds" - the Russiagate thing was a kangaroo show - and it is that kind of thing that shows how our system of justice is a third world clown show at times. This is what I don't like.

 

Anytime you're ready, boss.

 

I have not even bothered looking at the "Ukraingate" issue in any detail. The RussiaGate investigation was such a kangaroo clown show - with so many corrupt actors and actions complete with a heavy dose of propaganda .. that my suspicions are that this new investigation will be a similar affair - hence why I have tuned out to a large degree.

I would not be surprised if much of the US public have also tuned out.

 

As a conservative, I've decided to just laugh at the left. Sorry, but it's become a comedy, and lefties are Lou to our Abbot. It's just too stupid to really take seriously.

 

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Unlike most conservatives these days - I believe in the Principles of Republicanism, the founding principles, and the Rule of Law.

While I can see how some would view this clown show as comical - "Disturbing" is more the emotion that I feel.

Russiagate was - and is being used - as an excuse to further degrade individual liberty. In particular freedom of the Press, Freedom of Information and Freedom of Speech. In addition , there were many violations of the rule of law and principles of justice.

I don't think there is much that is comical about storm troopers showing up at ones door - ramsacking your house - taking your computer, phone and so on, throwing you in jail on the basis of made up charges - because you tried to out Gov't Criminality through Legitimate means.

I am sure however that Putin would be proud

 

Oh noes! Collusion!

DNC worked with Ukraine to undermine Trump campaign

 

It is hoped those who should read this post, Trump's supporters, will do so and with great concern. However, I fear they will not. Their main excuse will be they are too busy to take two minutes to read the post. The real reason, however, is when it comes to Trump, they try to avoid reality. Others will use an unsaid excuse. Since they have shown inability to defend Trump, what is the point of reading a realistic post that illustrates Trump's incompetence?

I hope I am wrong about this.

Perhaps it is time to reassess their priorities. Well, Trump's supporters don't want to think about that, either.

The U.S. Attorney General, William Barr, has openly said he will investigate the investigators of the Russian intervention in our 2016 Presidential election and has said the FBI was spying.

WASHINGTON, D.C. (AP) — Attorney General William Barr says he thinks “spying did occur” against Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.

Trump has said that Barr can help him validate his 2016 electoral victory, and Giuliani has been trying to unearth damaging information about former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. in anticipation of the 2020 race.As part of his efforts, Barr in recent months has asked the president to facilitate communications with foreign officials and has made at least one trip to Italy to secure cooperation, according to a department official. https://www.ktrs.com/ag-barr-i-think-spying-did-occur-against-trump-campaign/

In an effort to investigate the group of spies known as the FBI, an organization directly under the control of Barr's DOJ, Barr enlisted the help of President Trump.

"President Trump pushed the Australian prime minister during a recent telephone call to help Attorney General William P. Barr gather information for a Justice Department inquiry that Mr. Trump hopes will discredit the Mueller investigation, according to two American officials with knowledge of the call," the Times.

What does it say about this administration when the A.G. is openly supporting Trump, pretty much acting like President's personal lawyer with an enormous amount of juice, the entire Department of Justice?

What does it say about this administration when the A.G. openly asks the President to call a foreign leader to ask for help to validate his 2016 electoral victory, an election that took place nearly three years ago? Is Trump -- and Barr -- obsessed?

What does it say about this administration when the President openly asks the Australian leader to investigate his own government for the President's poltical benefit?

Is there something wrong about all of this? Of course.

 

Nothing, no reaction whatsoever from Trump's supporters. Why? It's like I said. When it comes to Trump, they prefer avoiding reality, and, in the second place, they lack the ability to defend him.

Of course, it can be argued, everyone does. How would anyone defend Trump? It can't be done.

 

Get in line.

 

The fact is, many here refuse to talk about the subject of this thread, Trump's phone call to the Ukrainian president requesting foreign intervention in our 2020 Presidential election. Trump's supporters want nothing to do with posts on the thread subject. Obviously, they prefer to avoid reality.

The title of this thread is:
WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

 

yabberefugee said: ↑

Trump was not dealing with a "whistleblower".....until suspiciously recent revisions, whistleblowers could only relate 1st hand accounts.

That is a lie. It was a lie when Trump said it. It was a lie when Graham said it. And it is a lie here.

Early on Tuesday, Trump tweeted, "Why aren't we entitled to interview & learn everything about the Whistleblower, and also the person who gave all of the false information to him."

Sen. Chuck Grassley is the chamber's most senior Republican.

"No one should be making judgments or pronouncements without hearing from the whistleblower first and carefully following up on the facts," he wrote. "Uninformed speculation wielded by politicians or media commentators as a partisan weapon is counterproductive and doesn't serve the country."

"When it comes to whether someone qualifies as a whistleblower, the distinctions being drawn between first- and second-hand knowledge aren't legal ones," Grassley said. "It's just not part of whistleblower protection law or any agency policy. Complaints based on second-hand information should not be rejected out of hand, but they do require additional leg work to get at the facts and evaluate the claim's credibility."

A statement from the inspector general appointed by Trump made clear that the whistleblower was not simply communicating secondhand knowledge.
"The whistleblower stated on the form that he or she possessed both first-hand and other information," the statement read. "The ICIG reviewed the information provided as well as other information gathered and determined that the complaint was both urgent and that it appeared credible."

"The Senate voted unanimously in favor of a resolution calling for a whistleblower complaint involving President Donald Trump to be turned over to congressional intelligence committees," Business Insider.

Trump's house of cards is collapsing.

 

Is Trump in hiding? Usually, he manages to dominate daytime television, but not recently. This past week, we have gotten a few clips, but htere have been none his long-winded, self-serving news conferences on the front lawn while Marine One churns away.

Well, if I were in his shoes, I would want to hide from the public, too.

 

Sorry but you can't ramble on for sentence after sentence and expect people to pay attention.

Get to the bloody point because nobody has time to read an entire paragraph that simply says "nobody is going to read my garbage".

You're allotted about 10 seconds to get to the point. You failed, so...

 

Nothing, Trump's supporters have no reaction at all to these documented facts concerning the impeachment charges alleged against Trump.

What kind of people are these supporters? They let Trump's detractors walk all over their hero, and they say nothing other than worn-out clichés and their own fantasies that have no basis in fact.

If they can't justify their political beliefs, perhaps it is time to revise their political beliefs.

 

This is a typical Trump fan. Speaks but says nothing. He never defends his hero. His reaction to a Trump critic is to mock the critic.

In all honesty, I feel sorry for this poster. How can you not defend your political beliefs? Is there something wrong with his political beliefs?

Sorry, that took 20 seconds.

 

You're inferring a lot from people not wanting to bother arguing with you. What I gathered from you is that is there is no defense of President Trump that you would ever accept.

So why bother?

Cast not your pearls before swine.

 

CBS reports, "Speaking to reporters on the White House South Lawn before departing for Florida, Mr. Trump suggested that China and Ukraine should investigate Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.

"Asked on the White House South Lawn what specifically he wanted Zelensky to do, Mr. Trump responded:

"Well I would think that if they were honest about it they'd start a major investigation into the Bidens," Mr. Trump said. "It's a very simple answer. They should investigate the Bidens because how does a company that's newly formed -- and all these companies if you look at, and by the way likewise, China -- should start an investigation into the Bidens.

"Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine. So I would say that President Zelensky, if it were me, I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens because nobody has any doubt that they weren't crooked.'"

It wasn’t immediately clear what Trump believes “happened in China” as it relates to the Bidens. For that matter, Trump has never explained "what happened with Ukraine," either. As a matter of fact, no one has explained what it is the Bidens did wrong.

On the other hand, there are numerous sources that conclude the Bidens did nothing illicit, and those sources are not disputed by Trump, the White House, or the dwindling number of Trump cohorts.

Trump said that “I haven’t” asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to investigate, “but it’s certainly something we should start thinking about.”

Trump is not about to ask Xi to investigate the Bidens. Why in the world would Xi help Trump. Only his base could believe such an unlikely possibility. Trump always talks to his base, and, obviously, no one else.

Then came the always inevitable threat for which Trump is infamous. He is not happy unless he is making threats against someone. Here it is. Are you ready for it?

“I have a lot of options on China, but if they don’t do what we want, we have tremendous power.”

It is just another bogus threat. Trump has issued countless bogus threats. They, too, are meant for his base. They love his threats, but even they know they are fake. The very last thing Trump wants to do is aggravate the trade war with China which is posing a recession threat to our booming economy. He has had enough.

Incidentally, after losing 738 points on Tuesday and Wednesday, the Dow rallied for a whopping 122 points today. The Dow now stands at 26,201. That is 238 points below where the Dow was on Jan. 29, 2018. Does anyone think Trump wants problems with China?

 

To tell you the truth I wouldn't know. I have never seen a Trump supporter try to defend Trump.

 

dude, there's nothing to defend because there's no offense. Just... nothing.

 

Just remember the press is never require to tell the truth, offer proof, or apologize....they are beyond retribution, ask them...they will tell you.

 

I've defended him several times. IIRC you've simply pretended I didn't do so and ran away.

 

What did the press get wrong? Were you referring to post 670? You didn't tell us what you are talking about. If it is CBS, what was inaccurate in the report?

I'm guessing you won't answer.