The creeping fascism of Donald Trump

"de facto Americans"

LOL, that's a good one.

This has been a great thread, and I thank you for it. What began as a warning of an incipient threat of "fascism" from Der Trumpenfuher, devolved into your pleading for strong man rule, to make up laws when dear leader sees a compassionate need.

Probably the best thread of the month!

 

Obama had reporters investigated, killed Americans in drone strikes, bombed 7 different countries in six years, spied on Americans thru the NSA, ran guns to a Mexican cartel, destabilized Libya, and funded jihadist in Syria. Wonder if the OP was screeching about “creeping fascism” back then.

 

Who would pay for red state welfare without the blue states?

You clearly haven't thought this through.

 

He is investigating his boss for something petty. It reeks of partisanship. Swamp.

 

OK we will put you in charge of it.

 

I"ve explain why this is a strawman argument. You haven't refuted that it is not.

You haven't refuted my post. As for 'de facto' it's the appropriate word, in my view, for DACA kids.
It means in effect, or in truth, though not in law ( as opposed to 'de jure' )

"de facto"


How does this not describe the DACA as Americans since they've been her all their lives, and do not know
any country but AMerica for their culture, language, customs, etc?

Again, you haven't refuted my post. You've only mocked it, and mocking, as such, is an incompetent debate technique.

 

'Socialism' is a meaningless word. I don't agree that 'fascism' is a meaningless word. In fact, it has a very specific meaning.

 

Seems to mean "I disagree with you and I don't want to talk about it."

 

I didn't say that. I gave you evidence that business stats, over the years, prove to be in democrats favor. that's reporting statistics, and explaining why I'm a democrat ( or one of the reasons ) but the main reason I posted the stats was to refute your premise that 'democrats are indifferent to business' which is a lie, We believe in trickle up economics, helping the bottom and middle and middle does more to help society as a whole, including the rich, than only helping the top ( such as Trump's overwhelming tax break for the rich and crumbs for everyone else ). The stats support this contention.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't put words into my mouth.

AS for your point regarding congress and senate, the buck stops with the president. No matter who is in congress and senate, his leadership skills (or lack of them) have a lot do with with what gets written and passed.

You might have a point only in a circumstance where the opposing party has both the house and the senate, and a veto proof majority in the senate. But, even then, a president can make life difficult for senators who defy him too much.

Sorry, I don't by your premise. Responsibility is shared, of course, but the buck stops with the president.

 

Well, I think most would agree that, at a minimum, it features a dictator, extreme nationalism, strong limits to freedom of speech, thought or assembly, hostility towards racial and other minorities, and, unlike communism, the private ownership of personal, commercial and industrial property.

 

The proliferation of secret police/spy agencies is a hallmark of totalitarianism and fascism.
This "state within a state" rigged the 2016 and 2018 elections and plotted to remove Trump from office.
Conclusion: Trump is an anti-fascist president. Probably the first in many decades.

"Closely connected with this transformation of the suspect into the objective
enemy is the change of position of the secret police in the totalitarian
state. The secret services have rightly been called a state within the state, and
this not only in despotisms but also under constitutional or semi-constitutional
governments. The mere possession of secret information has always
given this branch a decisive superiority over all other branches of the civil
services and constituted an open threat to members of the government."
THE ORIGINS OF TOTALITARIANISM, By Hannah Arendt, Meridian Books, Cleveland, New York, 1958. https://archive.org/stream/TheOriginsOfTotalitarianism/The-Origins-of-Totalitarianism_djvu.txt

 

Oh, for Crissake!

Oh for crissake!

 

You need to learn the art of not putting words into people's mouths.

Try me.

 

Good point. The Democrats would move out of the red states when welfare is removed and make the red states even stronger

 

The 14 characteristics of a fascist ( or someone with fascist leanings )
I'd say many of the following are true for Trump.
Conclusion: Trump has strong authoritarian tendencies which are compatible with fascism.

 

In fact, your list of "fascist leanings" are more closely associated with Trump's opposition.
For instance, the blatant rigging of the DP nomination process in 2016 and again in 2020 against reformers like Sanders and Gabbard.

 

Everything you cited was based on which party was the President. That's folly. I stated no premise but certainly would agree with it. Your party engaged in trickle up economics starting in 2007, how'd that work out? Employing the bottom and middle works out best for society not government handing out money to them. The bottom and middle class got substantial tax relief under Trump's tax cuts. And the buck doesn't necessarily stop with the President, he has to negotiate with an equal branch, one that can lame duck and even cut him out completely as Democrats did to Bush43 his last two years. They can also force a President to their will as Gingrich and Kaisch did with Clinton his last term. Our system of government is much more complicated that just whoever is President rules everything and everything that happens is in his lap.

 

That's just bad behavior. It takes more than a few to make 'fascist'. The salient features in that list most certainly are Trump.

 

There's a battle within the democratic ranks between the neoliberals ( the corporate dems ) and progressives whereupon progressives have never had a majority in the party. Therefore, I"m not going to defend all of their policies, I do it on a case by case basis.

This idea that the left is only concerned with 'handouts' is really simplistic, and, it's a strawman.

The overwhelming benefits of the Trump tax cut when to the rich. I don't think there is any question of the fact.
https://americansfortaxfairness.org/issues/trumptaxcuttruths/
Whatever crumbs the tax cut bestowed on the middle class, they were taken away by the tariffs, which are now making life very difficult for small farms.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...fs-have-wiped-out-most-families-tax-cut-gains

 

Some of these element of "fascism" I see as benign: powerful military? Fine by me, and I am unaware of any social programs slashed to la6y for new aircraft carriers. Trump is straining to get us OUT of Afghanistan and is planning no new wars.

Applying some of the inarguably bad features of fascism to Trump is ridiculous: flags everywhere, suppression of labor unions, summary executions, arrest of professors, censorship, national police force, anti-gay legislation?

Knock it off.

 

Bernie Sanders: The states can't be allowed to make covid choices interdependently.

Bernie supporters: Trump's a facist!

 

Yeah, especially torture, summary executions, anti-gay legislation, assassination of opposition candidates, suppression of speech. Just rampant.

I think leftists derive some perverse pleasure in indulging fears of fascism. It makes them feel heroic, standing up to Hitler and all.

 

Satan is helping Trump, yes.

 

Of course he is but, who or what are these forces of darkness aiding the Orange Frontman in the clown costume ?

 

What did I need to refute? It's self refuting. You started the thread worried about fascism and the rule of law, and ended up explaining why a leader needs to write his own laws to get things done. That's pretty self refuting.

As for why your term, "de facto" Americans is kind of funny, it's because it sounds like a parody of some right wing blowhard talking about the left, like Stephen Colbert doing a bit on his old Comedy Central show. However I've learned if you wait long enough, all parodies about the left eventually become fact.