17 year old child punches ref once and kills him

2nd degree does not require premeditation and premeditation can occur 5 seconds before you commit the act.

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Zimmerman doesn't have to prove it. The prosecution has the burden to prove it was not self-defense.

 

the premeditated crime was the assualt.... the fact that the ref died.... while not the intention of the kid, I'm sure, was a direct result of the crime of assault

 

Says who? The initial police statement was just that he was larger, no quantification. So how much is "quite a bit"? And how "heavy" was the ref?

They give no source as to who quantified the statement and on what basis.

But what is your point?

And the arguing and then he struck him

"Johana Portillo wasn't at the Saturday afternoon game in the Salt Lake City suburb of Taylorsville, but she said she's been told by witnesses and detectives that the player hit her father in the side of the head after he issued the yellow card.

"When he was writing down his notes, he just came out of nowhere and punched him," she said.
http://www.abc-7.com/story/22148207/utah-soccer-referee-in-coma-from-players-punch


But the fact remains a 17 year old can assault and put down an adult and even kill them with one punch inspite of your assertions otherwise. This is just one more example which you now try to squirm out of. And Martin was an athlete so don't try to portray him as a 90 pound weakling.

 

I forgot to ask you - what does football have to do w/the topic?

And btw, just heard on news that the ref was punched in the side of the head and as a person who said you had worked in the medical field for 20 yrs, why don't you know the dangers of this?

Are you saying if an angry parent punched his child in the head and the child died, that's a 'freak accident'?

But if the dad was playing catch w/his son and the flying ball hit the boy in the head and killed him - THAT'S a freak ACCIDENT.......there was no intent to injure or kill.

 

You have to love the comments when its obvious one has not even read the article.

 

And if I premeditate a robbery and end up killing you in the process..............?
The assault was a felony assault and the ref was killed during a committance of a felony. That can bring murder charges in fact capital murder charges.

 

Surely a 17 year old unarmed teen can't kill a grown man.....at least according to some...LOL!

 

*sigh* 2nd Degree requires premeditation for a crime that lead to result of someones death. Those crimes could include rape, assault, or arson. The 17 year old did not think out or plan the assault of the referee. Thus it was not premeditated, that is why he should be brought up on Manslaughter. If you tried him on second degree a wet around the ears lawyer would be able to beat that.

Lawyers have tried saying that, and all of them have failed. An emotional reaction does not = premeditation.

 

Yes as in "I'm mad now" with malice, and I think I will go commit a felony assault on that ref over there.

Yes.

Yes he did, he was mad at the call and decided to assault the referee.

It can certainly be argued it was.

Which will probably be the more likely charge.

Not necessarily.

No they have not all failed and it is the law in several states

So under Utah law Murder Section 203 Murder

(b) intending to cause serious bodily injury to another, the actor commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of another;
(c) acting under circumstances evidencing a depraved indifference to human life, the actor knowingly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another and thereby causes the death of another;

 

That sounds about right........

 

*sigh*

2nd Degree murder does NOT require premeditation.

a death that resulted from an assault that is likely to be deadly.

Punching someone hard in the head fits that definition.

 

Your information is incorrect.

1st. Degree Murder (aka Capital Murder), requires premeditation and/or death by homicide during the commission of another felony.

2nd. Degree Murder does not require premeditation. Heat of passion killings are often charged as 2nd degree.

This is correct.

It can be defined as heat of passion, and charged as 2nd. degree murder.

 

For what maybe the 14th time, yes it does. Premeditation is required for 2nd degree murder. The teenager must have made plotted and intended on attacking the referee. There was no motive other than his inability to control his temper.

If it were a premeditated assault, than yes. However there is no standing evidence to convince me that the suspect had any intent to attack a ref.

Punching someone in the head does not equate to the intent to kill. If it did, than you would be able to bring up most assault charges to attempted homicide.

The kid lost self-control and did something he should not do and that was laying a hand on a elder. If he was not riding emotional highs that sports bring out in people, he would not have lost self control and attacked a referee. He showed no intent to kill and only acted on provocation. That alone is the definition of manslaughter. If you want to try him for 2nd degree murder you are going to let a killer walk away from a crime.

 

Please post the legal info from a website with a link that backs up your assertion that premeditation is necessary for 2nd degree murder.

 

http://search.jurisearch.com/NLLXML/getcode.asp?datatype=S&statecd=CO&sessionyr=2012&TOCId=11884&userid=GUEST9&cvfilename=&noheader=1&Interface=NLL

 

After reading the above, I believe not only can this guy be charged with 2nd. degree murder, but it may be deemed a class 2 felony.

Resulting in a more harsh sentence than that of a class 3, 2nd. degree conviction.

 

Thanks Johnny, my mistake on the state.

...thanks for the link too, I'll have a look.

 

one punch is all that is required to kill anyone, hit the correct spot with sufficient force and it's all over...I personally know two people killed exactly this way...and at 17 he maybe a stupid teen but physically he's an adult...

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nice sport? there's a common misconception...

 

in Canada this would be manslaughter, 6-10yrs in prison...he killed him but there was no intent to commit murder, and proving intent would be impossible regardless...

 

Blood from a nosebleed dripping into the stomach.

 

Your right when they say quite a bit they only mean a pound or two.

LOL, so now it doesn't matter but had they said he was quite a bit smaller than the official you would have taken and run with it. Talk about speaking with a forked tongue.

The point is the kid was larger thats the point. What part of that don't you understand? This kid was larger so his one punch was devastating. Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by almost 50lbs. He claims he was suckerpunched, punched repeatedly, head slammed on the concrete and all we see is two scratches and a bloody nose. So how is it this guy died from one punch, Zimmerman claims to have been brutalized and he didn't even have a freakin headache. Please explain that for all to read.

Zimmerman worked as a bouncer and security before so please don't try and make him out to be a wussy donut. I am still waiting on you to post that story of a 17yr old killing a man who outweighs him by 50lbs with his bare hands. I won't hold my breath while I am waiting.

 

Johnny,

After reading further, it does appear that Utah has a Second Degree Homicide charge, but I now believe it would be a stretch for this guy to be charged with it.

I now think Voluntary Manslaughter or Criminally Negligent Homicide may be the route the state takes.

Anyway, thanks again for the correction earlier.

Regards