Aurora workplace shooter was set to be fired by company, police chief says

Depends on the state, since it's a state process, which was my point.

Lying on the 4473 is a federal offense.

Notice how he got past both state and federal laws and "background checks", and was prosecuted for neither.

 

Unless you're in your car, can prove you're traveling THROUGH the state, and don't stop anywhere except for gas.

 

Right. You have to unlimber to get out of the car.

 

Right.

NICS was accessed at least twice. Which means the felony he was wanted for was not put in the database, or ignored.

 

Or unkimber?

 

This is true IL does not have reciprocity with any other state. There is what is known as a safe passage provision (Federal) known as the Firearms Protection Act (FOPA). In states like IL transport the firearm in a separate compartment from the driver compartment Unloaded. I separate any mags from pistols as well though some insist that is not necessary. Safe passage means travel from point A to B without stopping, period.

NJ and NY are even more screwed up. Avoid carry there without a state issued permit. Even with FOPA you can still be arrested if you don't follow the laws of state you are traveling through.

 

CA Purchase Requirements

1. All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee.

2. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun (pistol grip is 21). To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and:

1. Possess an FSC or qualify for an FSC exemption.
2. Successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or qualify for an exemption to the safe handling requirement.
3. As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present “clear evidence of identity and age” which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver’s License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles.
4. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.
5. If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.
6. Purchasers are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, notarized residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

I am sorry. I stand corrected and apologize. If a fingerprint is now required in CA as part of the DROS process it is a fairly new requirement.
CA has become so restrictive I don't do business there any longer. Totally screwed up state.

 

Unfortunately it looks like they didn't even use NICS.

If he didn't give them his fingerprint he would still have an FOID card and concealed carry license today. And likely more guns.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...oked-gun-license-gary-martin-foid/2912770002/

 

He had the gun because the state did not enforce the law.

 

That is true. IL as restrictive as IL is it does NOT require fingerprints to be submitted when applying for a conceal carry permit. Since it is a Shall issue state, it does speed things up by about a month if prints are submitted and if a LEO is willing to print you usually for a small fee, county sheriff's will.

In Florida, no prints are required at all for a permit. It is strictly a mail-in process and they have no problem issuing non resident carry permits that have reciprocity in several other states.

 

Of course they used NICS, and did so at least twice.

I see you still don't get it.

I'm assuming the state police do a NICS check when they process the FOID. The fingerprint is irrelevant, and would only be useful if he didn't use his real name and SSN.

When you actually purchase a gun, you fill out a 4473. This is done every time you go in to purchase firearms, and is a federal form.

Every time you walk into a gun store and buy a gun a NICS check is processed.

 

This is really the bottom line.

Multiple laws were not enforced that allowed him to get his hands on a gun, just like nearly all mass shooters that got their hands on a gun.

 

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf
The requirement states:
Please be advised that federal law does not authorize a check of the National Instant Criminal History Background Check System (NICS) as part of a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC). Therefore, the results of a PFEC might indicate that you are eligible to possess and purchase firearms but you could still be prohibited based on information in a federal database that the California Department of Justice was not authorized to check.

which seems to imply that fingerprints cannot be checked on NICS. Is that right?

 

Below is the law(s) applicable to fingerprinting for firearm purchases in California. (Some entries omitted for simplicity)

Those basic rules you posted didn't say fingerprint required but if you delve deeper into the law, you'll find that they are.

I'm betting that if you do the same thing (Delve deeper into the law) for other states, you'll find the same thing.

Perhaps fingerprinting is a "goes without saying" kind of thing that they didn't deem necessary to include in a simplified explanation of the actual law(s).

And perhaps the "She" that I asked about stated what she said with just given information from a simplified list of requirements as well.

https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/pen/part-6/28150-28180/28160/

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-30105.html

 

I spoke to another dealer in CA and they said it's true, the FFL takes a print in CA for all purchases. In HI the same may be true. I don't know all of what's been changed in NY. Most states do not require finger prints to purchase.

Since I only transfer firearms to certain other states on occasion, I only care about what I can send or not, such as mag restrictions, AR's, AK's, etc. The final transaction always takes place between the customer and a local FFL in the buyers home state. Your state is so messed up I don't do business there at all. What might be on an approved list of what you can buy in CA one month, it may be banned for one reason or another the next.

 

The NICS, as envisioned and created by the Democrats, has no provision for checking fingerprints.

 

Like I said, I bet that if you delve further into the actual written law(s) of the several states, I'm quite confident you'll find more.

Did you research the penal code(s) (Or whatever they call their list of laws) that address firearms purchases in the state of Illinois? (Or any other state?)

The three firearms I have bought within the last year were through Gallery of Guns (Rifle), Gunbroker (Rifle, on-line auction), and Buds Guns (Handgun shown in my avatar).

Gallery and Buds now have a setting where you can filter in just the firearms that are available for sale in California and Massachusetts.

Makes it easier what to pick from but still allows you to see what's out there.

Gallery of Guns has just about anything out there but their prices are way high (MSRP, mostly).

Buds has a way more limited supply but their prices are fantastic.

Here in California we have to resort to looking on-line for our firearm purchase(s) as the stores that sell firearms---even the chain stores and Bass Pro---have a limited supply and their prices are outrageous.

Arizona and Colorado (at least) firearm stores won't even sell to me as they have to follow the laws of the state the purchaser and, like you, don't even want to bother with all that crap. (I saw a BITCHEN double-barrel TEN gauge shot gun in a store in Tombstone, Arizona. Had the CASH, couldn't buy it.)

 

That is California law only. In California, FFLs are required to perform the background requirement through the DROS system. Like everything in CA they act as their own Point of contact for all firearms. Once a transaction makes it through the CA DOJ, it will be checked by them through NICS.

There are about 13 states that act as their own POC. The NICS (FBI database) was created as the result of the Federal Brady law, Gun Control Act. It has been in effect since 1998. All states access it even if the state acts as the only point of contact.

In 33 other states including mine, we don't go through the state police or any other state agency. We call or electronically contact NICS with an assigned pin number, give them certain information and they return a disposition and a transaction number for our bound book. That's it.

 

I would assume the same thing, but the state police said that their record search only produced Illinois criminal records. So they didn't use NICS or they did so incorrectly.

 

Davidson's what you know of as "Gallery of Guns" in AZ is an online dealer/distributor. I will buy through them if I can't get what I need from other distributors that are far less expensive for me to buy at wholesale.

Bud's in Lexington has great prices on a lot of what they sell. They used to have a poor reputation but got their act together in the past few years. It is hard to compete against them most of the time. Good high volume shop!

Gunbroker.com is an auction site that is run a lot like E-bay. It is a good place to check prices if nothing else. I have listed a number of trade-in guns there.

 

Sounds like FOID's are there to just inconvenience the law abiding then (like most gun laws).

It still doesn't explain how he was able to walk into a gun store, fill out a 4473, and buy a gun.

That's a check at the federal level with NICS every single time you buy a gun.

The "N" in NICS means "national".

 

In IL, you need a FOID to purchase ammo as well as firearms and even air guns over 450 FPS. They have had their FOID system in place long before they permitted any conceal carry. Again. Like CA the State Police in IL act as their own Point of Contact but the process is a lot more simple than CA.

In IL you show your FOID Card, a photo ID to the FFL dealer and he contacts the State Police who access the same NICS database that every other FFL does. A felony conviction should have shown up.

 

I see we shop at the same stores.

I use Gunbroker for out of production firearms.

I replaced a Marlin 881 that I had stolen from me in '08 by using that site.

Paid a lot for it ($406 + all the other costs) as the pictures showed it was in pristine condition (It came with a budget scope as well) so I took a chance.

Luckily, Mr. Lucky, it came in an unfired, pristine condition.

Not a bad deal for me to replace my Boyhood dream rifle.

 

If this black mass murderer was using his real name and real information, the fingerprint is and should be a moot point anyway.