Australia tells China "Screw off ! "

OMG. What are you doing?

 

Unlike you I am responding directly to what you say as one would do in a normal conversation.

 

No, you've side-stepped just about everything. You just continue crying "Wolf!" but you haven't qualified anything on your "enemy" list. I asked you to do that but you ran away from it and haven't mentioned it again. You still cry "Wolf!" though.

 

What do you mean I haven't "qualified" anything. I told you why China is a threat. I can't help it if you don't want to accept facts that are well known to anyone who is paying attention.

You say that we are all being "groomed" to believe China is a bad actor. The MSM, the entertainment industry, and academia are all infested with libby/leftie types pumping out a steady stream of leftist anti-American propaganda. So where is this grooming you talk of coming from? Where would one have to go to find it?

 

~ True. But was it actually an "accident" ?
We may never know ...

 

At the very least the CCP didn't let a good crisis go to waste.

 

It was no accident that they lied, covered up, destroyed evidence, and allowed 5 MILLION people to leave Wuhan and seed the world with this epidemic.

And the folks that defend this Lying Outlaw Regime.

THE MANCHURIAN THINK TANK: Koch-Soros Think Tank Features Defender of Chinese Censorship.

 

Australian President: Tell those Chi Coms to go ... Excuse me just a second.. (dials Trumps golf club phone number)... Uh sorry to bother you sir, how’s the golf game? Good , glad to hear that... uh ... just was checking, since our great Australia made great again , has virtually no navy .. uh .. the American Navy and USMC has our back right? Great, that’s great, thank you sir and good luck in November

back to the other phone: Ok now,as I was just about to tell you, Chairman Xi Jinping. Don’t mess with us here in Australia. What? This isn’t Chairman Xi Jinping? Well who the heck are you? Chairman of WHO? And Why is your phone number the same as Xiang’s

 

~ There actually could be more truth in this comment than humor . ´

 

"Facts" you say, eh? Right, so "their appalling human rights record at home" (that's a quote from you) proves that China is "your enemy" and you don't feel any responsibility to qualifying that statement for the purpose of it making any sense out of it in terms of presenting China as "your enemy"? As I said, you have run away from your own argument because it doesn't stand up to the slightest debate whatsoever.

Oh. But this time you motivate your "proof" with the convincing proclamation, "facts that are well known to anyone who is paying attention". Wow. That statement will stand up against the most fervent scrutiny. "Your Honour, it is unnecessary for me to go through the trouble of presenting any evidence in this matter as the facts are well known to anyone who is paying attention."

I never said that. You should pay attention and quit the sensationalism.

Without qualifying such statements all you are left with is sensationalism, propaganda, & paranoia.

In your imagination for sure.

 

No, it wasn't actually an "accident". It was planted by the CIA on purpose.

 

And spying on you ;_)

 

~ Oh my ...! '

 

1) it is true - we are all being groomed - to believe many things - some of which are true -
2) Much propaganda is coming from the left - from the right - and from elsewhere - some of it "anti American"

In the "Anti American" category - what would be a good example ? How about - Convincing you that it is your patriotic duty to trade liberty for temporary security.. would that qualify ? You can thank Bush for that one.

3) "Where would we go to find it" - Have you not noticed ? its everywhere. The Russians are coming -did you not hear ?

 

It has been a nice monopoly the US has had - and we have used it to spy like crazy on everyone - don't blame them for not wanting to jeopardize that.

 

I didn't say that China's human rights record alone made it an enemy, but it is a factor. When we see an oppressive totalitarian regime spreading its power and influence around the world we need to recognize that as a serious threat.

If you disagree with any of the reasons I have given as to why we should regard China as an enemy you need to state the reasons why you disagree.

From your post: The U.S. is grooming you to fear China. You deny you said that, but you did, so how about "qualifying" that statement.

 

You have no idea what you are saying, you poor fellow.

 

1) agreed.

2) We are called upon from time to time to suspend some liberty in order to deal with some threat, whether it be Nazi Germany, radical Islamism, or Covid 19. I don't see that as anti-American.

3) When I asked "where would we go to find it" I was referring to Thingamabob's claim that we were being groomed to fear China. I don't see it. China's actions speak for themselves.

 

Once again you have no response. You can't defend what you say and you have no rebuttal to what I say. I don't want to duel with an unarmed opponent. Why don't you just run along now and save yourself any further embarrassment?

 

2) I didn't say it was - .. what does Nazi Germany and Covid have to do with the Patriot Act ? Enacted under Bush - sacrificing liberties for security from an external threat - the risk of harm from which is 400 times less than the risk of harm from "Walking" -

3) I was commenting on the State Sponsored Propaganda in general - but - if you are having trouble finding examples related to China - you are not looking very hard.

This is not to say that fear of China is not warranted - they are a huge competitor in the economic war we are fighting - but lets keep it real.

Trump is making big blunders on the geopolitical chessboard - weakening our position on the board.

 

That was my response and it was a .....

 

2) When dealing with Nazi Germany and Covid certain liberties were suspended. These measures were deemed necessary at the time by the governments of the day. Some people disagreed with them. This disagreement is allowed in America unlike countries like China. The Patriot Act was deemed necessary after 9/11 attacks in order to prevent further attacks. Naturally some people disagree with it. After all, only 3000 people were killed in the 9/11 attacks, so why should we be called upon to make any sacrifices over a minor thing like that? I don't agree with that thinking.

3) I agree that fear of China is warranted and its about time we stopped turning a blind eye to what they are up to. It was pretty much ignored until Trump came along. I don't know how far Trump will get in his efforts to change China's behavior. Its an enormously difficult thing to do, but we should all be hoping he has some success.

 

Martial Law is a serious thing and is intended for a short period of time until the "overwhelming threat" subsides. I understand Covid - and Germany.

While there was perhaps a rational for the Patriot act - for a short period of time - we are now 20 years later - and our liberties still suffer -and things are getting worse. You were going on about liberals and the left - trashing essential liberty - and that's fine - and you would be correct.

What was left out of your rant was the fact that Red Establishment is just as bad - that we are being sodomized at both ends.

This is a complicated chess game - and yes - we had our eye off the ball for a long long time our assessment of the geopolitical chessboard flawed - thinking that Military was the strongest piece on the chessboard - when in reality Military is our Achilles heel - and economic is now the strongest piece.

While we spent most of discretionary available spending on military - while the other nations focused on infrastructure - technology - ramping up their economies to compete in the third millennium.

What about "China's behavior is at issue here ? They are competing - just like we are. Intellectual property ? - no problem - China has already stolen everything - it is now China that wants intellectual property protection because they are the one's coming up with much of the new intellectual property.

Rather than compete - with 5G - we try to use political tactics to bar them out of the market. This is a sign of losing - not winning. Not that this is not what we should do - but - do recognize that this is not a good situation we find ourselves.

In order for this strategy to work - we need the cooperation of as many other nations as we can muster. Trump - while he was waging this war with China - decided to alienated all the other nations in the world that matter - at the same time .. essentially waging economic war on the rest of the world - at the same time he is trying to contain China /Russia - a move on the board which has had the opposite effect.

I am talking here about the Iran Sanctions - not the Sanctions themselves - but forcing all the other nations of the world to go along with his "unilateral" sanctions - by using the so called "nuclear option" - threatening to bar banks and corporations out of the international system of payments for non compliance.

The world submitted for the most part - but they did so unwillingly - and are now getting payback. While Trump is going around beating nations over the head with the biggest stick he could find .. Russia and China are going around doing deals .. and we are losing left - right and center - our economic security being damaged with every fight.

This is what happens when you mess with the sovereignty of another nation - imagine if you were some purchasing agent - international contract - and one of the bidders was the nation who was all over the news - the people and politicians freaking out - saying "You are Messing with our sovereignty" - do you think that bid might make it to the bottom of the pile ?

 

The problem with ending the Patriot Act is that, unlike the Nazis, radical Islamism has not been defeated. No administration wants to put itself in a position where it can be blamed if we suffer another serious terrorist attack. That"s why Obama renewed all those parts of the Patriot Act that had expired in 2015.

The Red Establishment is not as bad. They don't have nearly the voice and therefore the influence the left has. Conservative voices are shut out of academia and the entertainment industry, and in the news media they have only the one major outlet Fox News. These are the institutions that shape public opinion and they are all completely dominated by the left.

China may have stolen everything up to now, but that doesn't mean we should allow them to continue that behavior going forward. This is not the only problem we have with China. They have been cheating on trade all along and its time we put a stop to it. It is clear from their actions that China wants to replace us as the dominant power in the world. Given that they are totalitarian with no belief whatsoever in liberty and human rights this is not something that anybody anywhere in the world would want to see.

Trump did not decide to alienate other nations. We cannot deal effectively with China, Iran, and Russia without co-operation from our the rest of the world. Trump is trying to rally our allies to the cause. Regardless of what they think of Trump's style they should realize that it is not in their long-term interest to cozy up to or turn a blind eye to these kinds of regimes.

 

This Deer in the Headlights response caused physical pain in my brain -

That we see so many on their knees - cowering in corners and under desks - begging to give up essential liberty and embrace a move towards totalitarianism - over a risk of harm that is 400 times less than the risk of harm from walking.

"Not Defeated" ? Terrorism may never be defeated.. hasn't been yet throughout history. and what have you gained - what good is it to gain the whole world but, lose your soul - how far are you willing to go - to defeat this threat - Shall we put a chip in every human - monitor the movements of every soul - listen to every conversation of every human 24/7.

Would this make you happy - make you feel secure ? The safeguards put in place to protect essential liberty were not put there to protect you against "Bin Laden" - or "Russia" - China perhaps will be the new excuse to increase Gov't/Police power and further restrict liberty.

The safeguards are there to protect you against Gov't accumulating too much power.

I forgot where on the political spectrum you claim to hail from - but it certainly is not from a place that respects the principles of Republicanism - nor the founding principles as per the DOI.

You are preaching "Utilitarianism" My Friend - as justification for law - whether you realize it or not- the main Liberal tactic used to undermine liberty - a Pandemic worse that corona in this nation - a disease that will be here long after Corona is gone.

12 years of school and we fail to teach the basics w/r to the founding principles .. so no surprise - It is a religious mantra.

So here is the thing: Utilitarian justification for law looks only at "what will increase happiness for the collective" - and gives no consideration to the rights of the individual .

This justification for law allows for an end run around the safeguards protecting individual liberty - and gives Gov't a huge amount of power.
This justification is thus an "anathema" to the principle on which this nation was founded = <this is a test - do you know the answer> and even if you did the right answer - how many did not - to such a simple question - never mind understand what that principle means in any depth.

"Respect for Essential Liberty" - would be the correct answer. "Limitations to Gov't power in this respect would be next on the list"

So what is the legitimate authority of Gov't - should powers be limited - or do we prefer Totalitarianism ? "limited" the crowd answers - we don't want Totalitarianism.

Next question is a bit harder - Limited by What? What is the legitimate authority of Gov't - as per the Declaration.

The barrier - the safeguard you are trying to do an end run around ?!