Challenge "the quran"

The first four books of the Torah and the Christian OT are fiction lifted from the much earlier mythos of Sumer and the Ugarite. They are teaching narratives NOT history. In that light, you should re-evaluate the message,

 

Response: This may be for those books, but not the Qur'an. The Qur'an corrects and clarifies historical claims by stating the facts. Therefore, if Allah dictates something is true,
then it is in fact true, not a myth. In light of that, you should reconsider your position.

 

Quran has dbunk itself with so many abrogated verses according to scholars of 144 verses half have been abrogated.

At the same time Muslims intellectuals and scholars who speaks the truth about the Quran were all silence and threaten, Islam just lack any credibility to be taken intellectually as demonstrated over and over again by Fatihah.

Christianity do not recognize Islam abrogation rule or law for Jesus Christ never abrogated humanity, Jesus Christ came to save us all but most of all in Jesus Christ all humanity are children of God.

Prominent Muslim scholars and intellectuals have been silence and persecuted for their research about Islam that contradicts the establish mainstream Islam. Many of these intellectuals have to live a life of exile and threat protected by Western authorities.

Dr. Nasr Abu Zayd

Dr. Ahmed Sohby Mansour

Nobel laureate Naguib Mahfouz was stabbed in the neck by an Islamist in 1994, leaving him incapable of using his hand to write

Atif al-Iraqi

Ragaa al-Naqash

Mahmoud al-Tohami,

Youssef Chahine

 

Response: And we see another deluded muslim use what is perhaps the worst strawman ever created, instead of answering the challenge. It's amazing and entertaining to watch. So many non-muslims claim that their is no evidence that the Qur'an is actually from Allah, yet when the muslim provides a scietific challenge that proves that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah, all the non-muslims scatter from taking the challenge, knowing that taking the challenge exposes clearly that the Qur'an is true. Otherwise, we would see at least one take the challenge, instead of everyone running from it. Your running only sheds more light on the fact that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah. Keep running. Keep running.

 

There was no worldwide flood nor any Exodus.. No Moses, no Abraham.

 

Response: The Qur'an proves to the contrary that there was a flood and that Moses and Abraham were prophets.

 

no wonder some of this sect do the suicide bombings

Some are just NUTS!

 

Archeology and geology prove there was NO world wide flood.. and educated Muslim Petroleum engineers have learned that first hand.

 

Response: Yes. It's no wonder why some non-muslims do suicide bombings.

 

Response: Islam does not teach a worldwide flood, so this does not relate to islam.

 

you are committing suicide, by lying to yourself (and others)

but dont even know it!

That shows us all what islame about religious wingnuts

 

Response: Only in the eyes of the delusional. Thanks for clarifying.

 

In the Old Testament God says he would not do that flood again, then goes and nukes Sodom, but only after Abraham bartered with God for the lives of the innocent, in the New Testament, Jesus said for his followers to dust their feet of and clearly it is left to judgment day as to their punishment.

"And whatever place shall not have received you nor heard you, when you go out thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet, for a testimony against them." (Mark 6:11) http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/m...chapter=6&lid=en&side=r&verse=11&zoomSlider=0

The morality tale clearly was modified, just as today ethnic cleansing is considered a war crime.

Margot fell into a trap of her own making, the Koran flood was in a valley, and the breaking of the bosporus fits such a narrative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

Nobody can prove Abraham did not exist, it is impossible. It fits though that in a direct line from the Black Sea to Ararat that the descendants of Nuh might have found their way to Ur.

Just want to be clear.

Moslem, I am still waiting for an answer to the question:

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/224677-challenge-quran-45.html#post5000707

 

The Boshorus flood theory has been debunked because it was a slow rise in the shore line that would have given families and livestock months to seek higher ground.

It was a river flood 150 miles wide and 350 miles long that emptied into the Persian Gulf..

Its dated to 2900 BC.. in the list of kings for Sumer.

 

The "ark" could have simply been a migration, especially if they were a seafaring people, allegory Margot, Allegory. The timeline of a slow covering of all their coastal cities would have been devastating to them, and not having a view from the air of the entire Black Sea to see where the problem was, or full understanding of why or how far they needed to migrate, could easily have driven them far from that region.

You are trying to be too literal, seeking a quick flood instead of seeing that a loss of city forever would have been far more devastaing to memory and oral tradition.

 

NO.. they were barges that hauled grain, beer and livestock down river .. from the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak .. on the Euphrates.. They have excavated a flood footprint.. sediment.

The Bosporus rise was very slow a few meters a month.

Look up recent findings.

 

Psychologically, the slow flood that never recedes is the more horrible one, they move back to a city further from shore, pray to their gods, it gets flooded, they move back further, pray to their gods, it gets flooded, "run for the mountains, flee this curse" all of their gods had abandoned them, polytheism is cursed..., it does not take much to go from those mountains to seeking another fertile region like Ur. Insisting that the waters receded is a trap, because if they recede then the gods were listening to prayers. Something more powerful had to make them abandon all their gods than simply a flood of a river. Only the total loss of all their cities forever could be so devastating to all their gods, and be seen as a curse for worshiping them.

 

The six day flood story on the Euphrates really happened and became a legend of sorts that was learned by the Jews during the Babylonian exile.

Its a great story so they adapted it for themselves as a morality tale.. as teaching narrative.

 

Seriously. I use a book, photographs, movies, and newspapers to prove that the Communist Manifesto inspired Red October. And one more thing -- other nations were sending aid to the anti-Communist side, which further proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Communist Revolution happened, in Russia, and that it was caused by the writings of Marx and Engels. Yes, that's a book, but so is the Qu'ran and the Hadiths. As I said, unless you have a time machine allowing you to go back in time and watch the battles, you are using accounts in a book in the same way as all historians do. I use my books and my photographs and so on because they are first-hand accounts. Yours are first hand as well, but at the end of the day, we're both using books containing first hand accounts to make our cases, yet you keep trying to pretend that you are doing something different than I am.

Once you learn more about history as a subject, you'll figure this out, but it's always far preferable to have multiple witnesses who have different viewpoints on the events rather than a single witness with a single viewpoint. If I want to understand the American Revolution, it's much better to read accounts from both the American rebels and the British soldiers. Even better is to have journals and so on from eye witnesses from all sides including those not directly involved in the conflict.

What the Hadiths were meant to be is the Islamic viewpoint of how the Muslim Empire was formed. Had we journals and writings of non-muslim Meccans or Medians, we could compare them and come to a real understanding of how and why things happened. What we have is the equivilent of the speeches of a general and the propaganda of the general's fighters as to how and why things happened as they did. We DON'T have anything beyond that. We don't have the viewpoint of the Meccans on what Muhammad preached on the street-corners of Mecca, we don't have the Meccan account of why Muhammad chose to conquer Mecca, we don't have an account from Medians about what life was like with the Muslims living among them. We don't know what happened to bring on the conflict with the Jewish tribe (at least not from the Jews point of view). What we have in those types of accounts are the Muslims telling future muslims that they were right to kill the Jews of that tribe, not the whole picture. Real history doens't rely on a single, biased account of an event. Real history looks at all sides of the event in order to discover the truth of the event.

 

Sure we know.. the Jewish tribe sold idols and ran the pilgrimage to the Kaaba..

Mohammed threw out the idols and cut into their revenues.

 

Response: In other words, you still try to justify your ducking and dodging, but fail again. Your logic is that it's true "because a book says so", which is foolish logic that any reasonable person can se. A picture is not proof that something is humanly possible to do either, thus your rebuttal continues to be weak. The qur'an challenge however provides a hands on-eyewitness account that inspiring enough followers to conquer a nation, or just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literature that goes against what the people want is humanly impossible, because anyone who takes the challenge will fail and not come close to answering it. And since it is clearly humanly impossible to use human-made speech/literature to achieve the act, then that means that the Qur'an that Muhammad used to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation was not the invention of any human/s, but from one who has greater power and authority than humans, and that is Allah. Debunked as usual.

 

You have already debunk your own scientific proof at the other thread.

Quran was copied or reference from the Bible mainly Christian heretical Bibles such those of Nestorians, Ebonites, Arianism and many others. The evidences are very clear the essential doctrine and scriptures of Islam and those heretical Christians of the 600 AD are all identical that is: (1) They do not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God (2) They believe that Catholics and Orthodox Christians worship Mary (3) They are anti Trinatarians (4) They believe Jesus is just a prophet.

The anti Jesus Christ is God and Son of God all begun in the 2nd century and reach its zenith in the 4th to 5th century it was wide spread in the Middle East especially in the Saudi desert regions were many of those heretics would migrate to away from the main cities of the Byzantine empire that the Byzantine have declare them to be off limits to those heretics. That is why Waraqa a Nestorian or Ebonite Christian monk convince Mohammed that the spirit was Gabriel the same Gabriel that appear to Moses, the problem was Gabriel did not appear to Moses it was God who appear to Moese so Waraqa got it wrong because he is a heretical Christian monk and his background of Christianity is base on that.


The Quran is the best evidence that clearly show us that it was reference from the Bible and from heretics including gospel of Barabas although the gospel of Barabas was written in the 16th century it mention the coming of Mohammed and share many similar essential scripture and doctrine with Islam many Muslim apologetics have accepted this gospel as proof that Mohamed was mention in a Christian text (heretical Christian text that was rejected by the establish Christian church just like they rejected the other heretical Christian text).

Let’s look at Sura 5:116 and 5:117 Allah questioning Isa, did Isa ever told the people to worship Isa or not, or did Allah ever gave Isa instruction to worship Isa. And Isa would answer that Allah did not gave him any instruction or that Isa never told the people anything but to worship Allah. And Allah asking Mary the same did Mary told the people to worship her?

That information can only come from the heretics who have been against Jesus Christ as the Son of God that was base on a similar incident happens 600 years before Islam when Jesus Christ was ask the same question by a group of Jewish crowds if he is the Son of God? And Jesus firmly answered he is the Son of God, “I and the Father are One” that is when the Jews wanted to stone him and Jesus continue to remind them about the scriptures but the Jews will not listen and Jesus did not deny he is the Son of God.

Allah’s question to Mary is also wrong the Establish Christian church never claim Mary is God or to be worship, nowhere in any of the council meetings did bishops ever said anything or approve anything about worshipping Mary. It was the heretics who are claiming that Mary is being worship. Allah’s question was base on the heretic’s claim that is why it was written that way in the Quran.

Another clear evidence are the names of characters that the Quran use they are all from the Bible except Mohammed.

Tell me honestly, how many verses have been abrogated or cancelled and which ones? So that we don't waste time discussing on verses that have already been abrogated.

 

Response: Amusing. Instead of responding to the filth in your own bible that was posted in your thread, you ran from it and posted here to attack islam. Truly Amusing.

 

I knew you'll see it as an attack, and I knew you'll find it amusing most Muslims are like that, because you don't have an answer as to;
1. what are the abrogated verses?
2. why are they still included in the Quran if they are abrogated?
3. How many abrogated verses are there?

All along, you been lying, you've been posting Quranic verses for all we know have no validity anymore, expired or abrogated?

Well, that is filth or is it? The similarities of Islam and heretical Christian sects are very evident. That is why Islam from the very beginning has been always to undermine and attempt to destroy the Bible because it has it's origin in the Bible.

 

How can a book written thousands of years after the fact be evidence of Moses and Abraham ?