Electoral College Under Fire Again

Is politically expedient whining, pandering and flip-flopping bad or okay? because I can never be sure.

 

You tell me. You guys put donald in office so you must see it as a positive.

 

You tell me. you guys put Mr. Marriage-is-Between-a-Man-and-a-Woman in office,
then did your level best to put Mrs. Marriage-is-Between-a-Man-and-a-Woman in office.

 

So you going just play your little dancing games................boring
I asked you a question, do you agree or disagree with Trump in the Electoral college. You quoted Trump's statement against the EC, do you agree or not. If you plan to dance don't bother.

 

You tell us, do you agree with his statement?

 

The only reason you like the electoral college is because it helped Republican candidates recently and it doesn't matter whats fair. This is why you guys also support gerrymandering, many even want Senators appointed by state legislatures not the people, excessive voting rules that target democratic groups, and no auto-voter registration. Its all about political power not whats right. Republicans know they are a declining part of the population and they will use every trick necessary to stay in power.

 

If you want to discuss my reasons then ask me I don't defend fallacious reasons assigned to me by those you don't offer a reasoned rebuttal of what I post.

 

Your OP doesn't have any actual reasons. All it has is your opinion that we shouldn't change the system. We both know the real reason you don't want the system changed, because it helps you. What if the electoral college had helped Al Gore become a two term president and Hillary become president after losing the popular vote? You would be out here talking about the system being rigged.

A good example is Trump who derided the electoral college until it helped him win:
In 2012:
“He [Obama] lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!” (Nov. 6)
“The phoney [sic] electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one!” (Nov. 6)
This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!
The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

After winning:
The Electoral College is actually genius in that it brings all states, including the smaller ones, into play. Campaigning is much different!

 

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are yammering about.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

uh huh.

 

Good post. Just about everything pro and con about the topic that can be said has been said. Just some random thoughts ...

The Founders sort of took the ideal of "democracy" and wisely "layered" it into the federal government. The Founders gave the people the power of a direct vote to elect the members of the House of Representatives. Those Representatives in the House are the local people from our own areas - people who know the specific needs and wishes of the local people of their district. And the Founders gave the House a lot of power as well. As examples, the Senate cannot pass a law and send it to the President for his signature without a concurrent consent of the House. The Founders gave the Congress the power to "declare war" which, of course, means the House as well. And finally, in the event that both the President and the Vice President should die or otherwise be unable to serve, it is the Speaker of the House who becomes President, not the majority leader of the Senate.

The people of each state elect the members of their own state legislatures through a direct vote, and those state legislatures were to select 2 senators to serve in the U.S. Senate to represent their state. So we see that the root of the power to select senators was still with the people through a direct vote of their state legislature. It was just one step removed from a direct vote of the people. A great amount of respect was given to the individual states by giving each state, big and small, two senators. In the Senate, Rhode Island is as big as California.

And then the power of the selection of President was given to the states in a way that respected all of the states, big and small.

When you think about it, it speaks to the fact that the Founders intended for the individual states to each be able to exert an equal amount of control over the federal government. And so, when the Congress passes a bill, it is a bill passed by the United (and equal) States of America. It also speaks to the fact that the Founders intended for the footprint of the federal government to be a small one and that the governance that had the most effect on our lives would come from our own states.

I am a strong believer that the 17th Amendment should be repealed. As it is, our state senators are subject to the corruption of donors and lobbyists that have nothing to do with the senator's home state. If the 17th was repealed, the senator would be beholden only to his state legislature, a body elected by a direct vote of the people of his or her state. That senator's only motivation would be to vote in a manner that represented the will of the people of his state, consistent with their votes given to members of their own state legislature. Election campaigns every 4 years, fundraising, campaign donations, etc, would become a thing of the past for the Senate. Putting the 17th into the Constitution was a mistake. It was probably well-intended, but it was a mistake nonetheless.

There is hypocrisy laden into the EC debate. I think it is safe to say that that if Trump had won NY and CA and the popular vote, but Hillary had won the EC, the Dems would be singing the praises of the EC system in the Constitution.

What has Trump really done since he took office? Well, he signed a tax bill that was passed by Congress. He nominated a SC justice who was confirmed by Congress. He has continued the war on terror (and had success against ISIS) that was authorized by Congress back in 2001. He attempted to end Obamacare, but that attempt was thwarted by Congress. He has conducted foreign policy which is within his role to do. He has scaled back regulations, regulations being the purview of the Executive Branch.

So the Democrats, rather than crying about the EC, ought to focus on winning the Congress because that is where the real power is. They should be trying to create an agenda that resonates, rather than trying to divide us over class warfare, race, gender, and bathrooms. The reason they lack power right now is not because of the EC. They've won the EC many times in the past. They lack power because of their failing message.

Seth

 

Please, what is different about all those voters in the Red States from the Heartland
compared to the voters in those coastal Blue States.

The E.C. gives us a geographical democracy intended so high population areas were diluted.
Less despotic on lower population areas.
Founding Father wisdom.
Was it Russia's fault Hillary could not win one Rust Belt State?

 

Even if SCOTUS agreed with your reasoning, the Constitution is just too clear. SCOTUS can't declare the Constitution to be unconstitutional.

But there is a constitutional remedy available that you must not have considered. This remedy would give all citizens in the US equal voting power. You could start a national campaign among the states encouraging the state legislatures to appoint Electors. Then no constitutional amendment would be necessary, and it wouldn't matter in what state you lived.

 

https://conventionofstates.com/

Don't let them.

 

The electoral college makes as much sense in this day and age as daylight savings time and leaf bowers.

 

You aren't even a citizen. What right do you have to portray yourself as one?

 

This is why our nation is crap. Folks like you who cannot fathom the difficulties and intricacies of our nation. Go home to Mexico.

 

Feel free to amend the constitution.

 

Election 2016:
Hillary wins CA by ~4 million votes
Hillary wins the "popular vote" by ~3 million votes.
Thus, Hillary LOST the other 49 states and DC by a net of ~1 million votes.

EC: Working as intended.

 

And excellent response. What is not taught in schools these days it seems is that there are three entities expressed in the Constitution. The United States, the federal government, the States and tne People. This leads to confusion in the interpretation sometimes for instance the Tax and Spend Clause which applies to the United States, the federal government, not the People.

I also am a proponent of repealing the 17th. The Senate is supposed to repreaent the interest of the States, the state governments. It ia supposed to be where the States have a voice where they do not now. Thus the federal government tends to run roughshod over them with mandates and regulatoons and requirements.

And the most misunderstood principle of our feseral government, the STATES elect the President and VP. The socalled popular vote is mere trivia. Without the EC the Constitution would never have been ratified.

 

You posted his quote, do you agree or disagree with Trump on the Electoral college?

 

As I stated, I posted his quote to show everyone how silly your OP claim is about how it is "liberals" complaining about the electoral college, of course.

Why are you trying to trick me in a sophomoric false dichotomy?

donald, who, contrary to your OP is not "the left" by any definition of the imagination, stated:

"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. The phony electoral college made a laughing stock of our nation. The loser one! This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our nation is totally divided! The world is laughing at us. Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before. We can't let this happen. Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country."​

I agree the electoral college is an anachronism that has been subverted into something the founders never intended, and I believe in democracy and that the will of the people should prevail in choosing the president.

I certainly do not agree we ought to have a revolution as donald said.

 

...

 

donald is the biggest flip-flopper in history. He makes John Kerry look like the Rock of Gibraltar.

Remember when conservatives pretended they cared about flip-flopping?