Evidence that the Holocaust DIDN'T happen?

Discussion in 'Zionist Agenda' started by Ronstar, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is, as you know, a debate forum and if you're afraid that the truth would weaken your position it may be a good time to look more closely at the incredible lies you've been duped into believing.

    I'm not interested in what others may think of my "position" in respect to debunking the most grotesque conspiracy theory in modern history.
    I'm only interested in the truth.

    How can you believe the holocaust story if there are no mass graves at Treblinka and after you know that your Holocaust Industry is guilty of innumerable frauds?
     
  2. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Answering suggestive questions support the opponents position.
    You're an HC denier, but I'm not, so I won't deny the HC. Not even implicitly. :)
     
  3. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find Lipstadt especially repulsive because of her smirking intellectual dishonesty and reliance on others to make her reputation.

    You've already admitted that you're willing to believe anything that the fraudulent Holocaust Industry cranks out in spite of its proven dishonesty.

    Additionally, you still believe the Treblinka story in spite of there being no mass graves; those, my friend, are the true markings of a "crazy fanatic" or, rather brainwashed cult adherent.
     
  4. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Where are the missing 850,000 bodies at Treblinka?" is not a suggestive question.

    It sounds like you need to believe the fraudulent holocaust story for some emotional or legal need regardless of whether it's true or not.
    I can understand that you want to stay out of jail so, I guess that you have to believe a slanderous fiction.

    To me, the truth is more important than what others may call me.

    Enjoy your weekend!
     
  5. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Give me a break. Are these guys wrong...

    https://mvlindsey.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/peoples-history-zinn-1980.pdf
    https://4.files.edl.io/0ec3/06/28/18/155729-1b8ab639-28ff-4b2d-858e-4ecf1f9cbbc4.pdf
    http://goodtimesweb.org/analysis/2015/Noam-Chomsky-1993-Year-501-The-Conquest-Continues.pdf
    file:///C:/Users/David/Downloads/World%20Orders,%20Old%20and%20New%20(%20PDFDrive%20).pdf
    http://www.ihr.org/mwreport/main

    ...or are the mainstream historians wrong? Tell us how you know the ones that you believe are right.


    I suppose you already know that this guy speaks German.

    David Irving - The Hidden History of WW II



    He got his info by touring Germany and interviewing Germans. Of course people can lie but I wouldn't simply rule out what he says.

    Did you learn any of this in your American history class in high school? I want an answer to this one.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/american-imperialism.371897/
     
  6. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Who do you call 'mainstream historians'?
    There are real historians and there are others who claim to be historians. But they aren't.

    They coincide with the statements of the eyewitnesses, for example.
    It's a matter of plausibility. Holocaust deniers are extremely implausible.
     
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Evidence that the Holocaust DIDN'T happen?

    Someone figured out how to prove a negative?
     
  8. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I don't plan to do a complete re-run of a thread where you spent page after page repeating distortions and even lying about posts you had made earlier in the thread. I urge anyone here who hasn't read through the thread I posted to do so. It is very enlightening, especially the bits where you flat out deny that you said things that you said in that very thread and repeatedly misrepresent the facts you yourself posted.

    I'll just leave people with the summary I put in that thread. It applies to all your threads:

     
  9. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My dearest Mr. Grau, it is not called "Endloesung", but "Gesamtloesung", meaning overall solution!!

    Also, I have to tell you again how much I, an original German child, appreciate your steadfast support for the truth about WWII! :hug:

    Just now I reread about General Otto Ernst Remer, who knew Hitler intimately and had conversations with him about the war.
    Here is part of an interview he gave after the war:

    Q: Can you say something regarding Soviet atrocities against German civilians?

    A: I myself saw cases involving women who had been killed, their legs spread apart and sticks thrust in, and their breasts cut off … I saw these things myself, in Pomerania.

    I spoke about this on the radio, and described it. Dr. Goebbels asked me to describe this in detail, and he sent a radio team to interview me for that purpose. That was in the area around Stargard, where I saw this.

    Q: What of the Soviet “Asiatic” troops?

    A: It was terrible. The soldiers who did those things were at the front …Asians, Mongols, and so forth.

    Q: Were these atrocities part of conscious policy?

    A: These things were done very consciously. They sought, in this way, to break our so-called class or elite mentality.

    Q: Before you spoke of the Jewish commissars …

    A: The problem was that in the Soviet army, in contrast to our army and all other armies, the Russians had political commissars who, along with the military commanders, had authority to give orders. Almost all of them were Jews.

    For example, in this regard, I observed something in Tarnapol and in Zolochev, which are east of Lvov [in Ukraine], during the course of a very rapid and successful military offensive.

    We had captured Zolochev and a couple of my tanks were stuck behind. The troops took a rest on the edge of the town because we didn’t yet know if there would be an enemy counterattack or if we were to continue our own attack. I wanted to call back my tanks. Anyway, in that little town I saw small children who had been thrown out of windows, and I saw women lying on the street who had been beaten to death with clubs. They were Jews.

    I called to a [local] woman, and she came into my vehicle. And she said to me: “I’ll show you why we did this.”

    We drove to the local prison. There was an area surrounded by a wall for the prisoners to walk around in. And in that area corpses were lying there this high … The blood was still flowing from the corpses.

    Just two hours earlier, as the Russians were leaving the town, they had used machine guns to kill all of the local Ukrainian nationalists who were prisoners there.

    In this case as well, it was the Jewish commissars who had done this. And that’s why the local Ukrainians had carried out pogroms against the Jews. And so, whenever a Ukrainian saw a Jew, he immediately killed him. But we were blamed for these deaths, even though we had no influence at all locally at that time. We weren’t able to establish order until later.

    Q: Was this done on purpose to discredit the Germans?

    A: No, these anti-Jewish pogroms were an expression of the outrage of the people. They hated the Jews.

    In Poland as well, there were often pogroms. As you may know, in Poland, there were even pogroms against the Jews after the war. That was really something. The outrage of the people in the East against the Jews, who always portrayed themselves as decent people and good merchants, is indescribable.

    We Germans did not have this hatred of Jews, of ordinary Jews. The Jews lived among us without any problem. We had the Nuremberg racial laws because we didn’t want any racial mixing. In Israel, of course, such laws are even more strict. At the time, the Zionists welcomed the [German] racial laws, because they were in keeping with their outlook. The Zionists were against racial mixing. Instead, they wanted all the Jews to migrate to Israel.

    Continued here:
    http://historicalrevisionism.com/general-otto-ernst-remer-about-hitler-and-russia/

    So, now we know where the so called missing 3 million Jews went... they were killed by the Poles and Ukrainians!
     
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  10. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    The ones whose writings are based on the idea that the Americans are the good guys.


    You didn't address this.
    I've lived in Latin American and the above info is consistent with what people told me there. Tell us what you think of that info and why we don't hear about it in the mainstream. This is not off-topic. The credibility of mainstream American sources of info is part of this issue.
     
  11. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    There are some identifiable lies in the official American version of WW2. Have you heard these speeches of Hitler's?

    Adolf Hitler Explains His Reasons For Invading The Soviet Union
    https://archive.org/details/AdolfHitlerExplainsHisReasonsForInvadingTheSovietUnion
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/barXPC8YT7em/

    http://ihr.org/other/WhyGermanyStruckUSSR

    Adolf Hitler - Why Germany Invaded Poland
    https://altcensored.com/watch?v=pe0gIdVgeow


    All the American sources I've ever seen were based on the idea that the German people had world conquest in mind during the war and they knew they were conquerors. It seems that the German government was telling them that they were the good guys and that they were righting old wrongs. Maybe they were being lied to but we know what they were thinking.

    Let's hear the pro-official version posters explain why we don't hear those speeches of Hitler's in history class.
     
  12. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Nobody will be surprised that Hitler presented himself as the good one. Hitler was not only a mass murderer, but also a liar and gambler.

    But seldom was he honest, such as here when he announced the Holocaust:

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/Egdw0bcSJBoV/
     
  13. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Pitbull
    .
    You didn't address the issue. Here it is again.

    Please address the actual issue I raised.
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    Regarding Walter Laqueur's quote that an extermination order from Hitler doesn't exist & never did, I'm simply citing the quote and its title exactly as it appeared where I found it.

    As much as I appreciate it, you don't have to thank me for telling the truth about Germany's true roll in the WW 2 era.

    Because of my military service in Laos during the Vietnam war, I am intimately familiar with US propaganda (aka Psych Ops) since I had to have a high security clearance due to the nature of US activities in Northern Laos.

    What I do not understand is that so many people can not grasp the reality that the US & especially the British had a WW 2 propaganda campaign that was and remains far more advanced than anything that Goebbles cranked out.

    Only German propaganda stopped at the end of WW 2 while far more prevalent Allied propaganda continues to this day throughout Hollywood and most Western MSM.

    I don't watch much TV but I am amazed at the amount of Allied, WW 2 era / holocaust propaganda that shapes the opinions of unquestioning and small minded people today.
    Even though decades have passed, the fraudulent Holocaust Industry demands even more atrocity propaganda in MSM and American schools today than ever before but there's still hope since the truth is as irrepressible as independent thinking individuals.

    Thanks for the reference to General Otto Ernst Remer, I've already read several interviews featuring him and when I lived in what was then W. Germany, I worked with a German WW 2 Veteran who served under him.

    Best wishes,
     
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  15. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    MORE SLANDER, EVASION & DECEPTION

    Anyone who has spent even a small amount of time attempting to debate brainwashed holocaustians will find that they are only capable of slander, evasion and deception so I'm not surprised that you're resorting to the usual baseless slander characteristic of small people who cannot support their lies.

    I encourage you to show anywhere where I have lied or contradicted myself so others can see who's really lying.

    "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" .... Socrates
     
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  16. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    When Hitler and his gang members addressed the people, it was all brainwashing, baiting and propaganda lies. Such speeches may be interesting in studying mass psychology, but not in history class.

    In order to understand the 3rd Reich and its criminal government, secret documents, contemporary witnesses, and perpetrator confessions are much more valuable. These tell us the real story. The common man at that time knew little about it.
     
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  17. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, you are wrong. :(
    Some of the most influential Nazi criminals spoke of the "Endlösung" (final solution) when they were among themselves.

    https://www.ghwk.de/fileadmin/Redaktion/PDF/Konferenz/protokoll-januar1942_barrierefrei.pdf
    (Page 1, first sentence)
     
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  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've told you repeatedly that I do not deny that the holocaust happened so I don't know why you still call me a "holocaust denier" unless it is an easy way to score points without refuting the facts I've presented that prove that the standard holocaust narrative(SHN) is fraudulent.

    The truth, at least to me, is more important than scoring points on a political discussion board and your refusal to respond to facts that prove that the standard holocaust narrative is false is simply a tacit admission of the same.
    In other words, your refusal to answer how 50 guards at Treblinka killed about 850,000 people in 16 months with a single Russian tank engine and then made the bodies disappear is the same thing as admitting that it was impossible.

    I only recently realized that readers of this and related threads can not know what you really think because your government tells you what to think and say concerning the holocaust. In spite of the fact that there was no genocidal agenda in WW 2 era Germany(1), you must argue that it does, regardless of the truth.

    You won't answer "suggestive questions" because you cannot do so without admitting that that the SHN is fraudulent and that would mean that you could go to jail.

    I understand now why you'll say: "I won't deny the HC. Not even implicitly." because you don't want to be fined and/or incarcerated in your country.




    (1) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

    - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190
     
  19. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    That's because you deny that the Nazis deliberately tried to exterminate the European Jews (and managed to murder about 55% of them). You deny the Nazis' motivation for genocide. This is clearly Holocaust denial. :(

    I find it morally reprehensible to deny the martyrdom and murder of those poor people. The vast majority of them were innocent humans who didn't deserve to be killed. But to the Nazi beasts, they were evil beings like vermin that must be destroyed.
     
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  20. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did you know...

    Alfred Hitchcock war der Vater der KZ-Filme gegen Deutschland; im Auftrag des US-Geheimdienstes?

    Alfred Hitchcock was the father of the KZ-movies against Germany by order of the US secret services?
    That is amazing!
    Have you ever heard or read about Gerd Honsik? He wrote the book: "Freispruch fuer Hitler" --> "Acquittal for Hitler"?
    I can't find the book on the internet. Has it already been discussed earlier on this forum?
     
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  21. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Those speeches show that lies are being taught in American history classes. We are taught that the German people and soldiers were thinking that they were fighting in order to expand their territory. They may have been lied to but they were not thinking that. They were thinking that they were righting old wrongs and defending their territory against a future attack by Russia.

    Tell us whether you think that we are taught lies in history class in the US.

    This is valuable too if we can be sure that the documents we are shown aren't bogus and that the confessions weren't because of torture and threats to hurt their families.
     
  22. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hi, Scott;
    what I find valuable are the remarks made by Sylvia Stolz, a defense lawyer for holocaust deniers:

    German Patriot Defence Lawyer Sylvia Stolz was sentenced to 3 and-a-half years in prison and disbarred for 5 years. Below Sylvia's comments to the court. She says
    [​IMG]
    the Court is perverting and repressing the truth with the cudgel of "Holocaust," making a mockery of justice. Her trial has made clear the criminal absurdity of prosecuting "Holocaust Denial." How can one deny something that never existed? She says these entire proceedings began as a show trial in a kangaroo court and never progressed beyond that point. The main proceedings were projected with smoke and mirrors and the official fairy tale of "Holocaust" was enforced by undisguised force. She observes that the political intent of the Court is the ultimate eradication of the German Nation and its replacement by a mongrelized and deculturated population of mindless consumers.

    http://www.holohoax101.org/thoughtcontrol/
    --------
    That is exactly what is taking place in Germany now!!! And worst, Germany's political caste is supporting the destruction 100%.
     
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  23. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Talk about fascism. What do you say to that Pitbull? Does the truth fear investigation?
     
  24. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a warmonger must first convince his warriors that they are the good guys. That makes massacring the enemy much easier.

    Neo-Nazis come up again and again with pointless claims of forgery and torture. Over 70 years after WW2, they still can't stand the fact that they lost miserably.

    First of all: Holocaust denial is not German patriotism!
    Sylvia is a Holocaust denier herself. The judge had warned her, but she preferred to be a martyr for her friend Horst and their Nazi community.

    The crazy Horsti is still in German prison. In 2017 he fled to Hungary. However, the Hungarian authorities could not do anything with a mo'fuxxing Holocaust denier. They arrested him and sent him back to Germany. They still know that the Nazis murdered ~500.000 Hungarian Jews in the Holocaust.
     
  25. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Americans are taught that the German soldiers and people knew they were the bad guys during the war. This is a big lie told to the American people by the American government. Tell us your opinion of this.

    I wasn't there so I don't know but I'm not going to simply rule it out.
    https://rense.com/general68/hoss.htm
    https://codoh.com/library/document/the-auschwitz-gas-chamber-illusion/en/

    You seem to have ruled it out. Is this your intuition? What are you basing this on?

    Martyrs sacrifice part of their lives in order for what they believe is the truth to prevail. Look at the case of Rosa Parks.

    People who see lies in the official story and want to figure out what the real truth is aren't necessarily Nazis and white supremacists. I'm starting to see that the official story of what the Nazis were doesn't quite reflect reality. I'm still trying to figure it out.

    That's the official story but is it true? I've pointed out one big lie in the official story. Can you see now that the people who write the history are capable of telling big lies? If one big lie has been identified, there may be others. After having seen one big lie, an objective person wouldn't simply take everything he or she reads in the official version as fact the way you do. You have a naive willingness to believe when you read official info and an a priori incredulity when you read alternative info. You don't use the scientific method**. If you don't use the scientific method, you can come to an erroneous conclusion.



    *
    http://politicalforum.com/index.php...t-didnt-happen.336026/page-25#post-1072061874

    **
    https://www.google.com/search?q=sci...0l3j46j0l3.5737j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020

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