GERMANY JOINS CHORUS CASTING DOUBT ON TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CLAIM THAT IRAN WAS BEHIND ATTACK ON OIL

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Sobo, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Question, What is Saudi Arabia for you?

    Last time i checked they fund IS, Al Quaida and Hamas. They use state terror and even murder journalists in foreign embassy and use a saw to cut open his body.

    So its ok for you to be allied with a radical islamists terror regime but for us its bad?
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think we should be allied with any ME state other than Israel. There are no good actors in the Islamic ME.

    The US no longer needs ME oil.

    We should pull out and let Europe deal with the terrorism and defend the shipping lanes for a change.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  3. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Great. We have a little bit more experience to deal with them.
     
  4. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Even if I were to agree that foreigners shouldn't comment on American affairs (I don't), this is NOT "American affairs."

    Germany, like many countries, depends on oil out of the gulf. A war between the Americans and Iranians effects everybody.
     
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  5. aenigma

    aenigma Active Member

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    like the US doesnt have a history of blowing up commercial planes ? ;)
     
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  6. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Bullcrap ... UK clearly says "NO" ... this time you have only Israel and Saudis as allies with some worth! Get the reality and come out of your Utopia La La Land ...

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-office-tory-leadership-contest-a8973781.html

    Yeah ... and you have a white shirt of innocence in history? Lol ...

    And because they did more or less reasoned in the past bad things, they are now automatically evil and guilty for you? Sure ...

    And why shall we honor the these criminal sanctions which are illegal implemented by the USA?
    Didn't you get it that you have no legal right to implement sanctions which have to be followed by others too?

    And shall I really come with the fact that your ending of the deal based on lies only?

    We can also just join forces and ally with Russia and China ... with many other important countries following us! Then the United Stated of America quickly becomes "Unimportant States of America"!

    Israel and Suadi Arabia ... you lost all your credibility and honor in 2003 and now with Trump!
     
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  7. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    There's some truth in here, but, trust me, the other way around is even worse. Americans thinking they have expertise regarding other countries' domestic affairs and lecturing others as only yanks can. Has happened to me numerous times and it's been quite ridiculous every time.
     
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  8. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, like telling Merkel is communist.
     
  9. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    That would probably change if Iran took over your embassy and held your staff hostage.
     
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I have been concerned about what the UK would do. I could not believe my ears when I heard Jeremy Hunt say most emphatically that the UK would make clear that as far as they were concerned there would be no war with Iran. Sometimes you get pleasant surprises.
     
  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As far as the US having allies is concerned I'd say it was important.
     
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  12. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Oh im not sure that our secret service orchestrated operation ajax in Iran, a coup that destroyed democracy in Iran and installed the american puppet monarch, the Shah.

    Operation Ajax was performed from the US embassy. Why yo let that little detail out?

    Since our embassy does not dosuch ****, its not taken hostage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  13. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    The British were involved, yet their embassy was not over run.
     
  14. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Involved, the USA did it.

    Question, can you understand that USA did gargantuan injustice towards Iran?

    Why you think Iran has no problem with Germany and France?
     
  15. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    No doubt, the CIA has overthrown democratically elected governments and interfered in internal affairs of a lot of governments. We all have our skeletons in our closets. German most likely still has good relations in the mid east due to ex-Wehrmacht advisers helping Islamic countries wipe out the rest of the Jews in that area and Germany had no colonies around there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  16. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    You forgot that you also trained the secret police of the Shah, which tortured and murdered thousands of people.

    As for why we have great relations with them, since ģenerations we treat them with respect. We sit down and trade.
     
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  17. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Well ... when you plan out of the embassy illeghally a counter coup by your CIA to get the Shah back into power ... you do really wonder that Iranians were annoyed?
    As illegal as this attack on embassy and taking hostage was ... you have to look on the complete story and this tells for example also that your CIA helped the Shah to depress the population and to eleminate any opposition with harsh measures like torture etc. That made you for yure very beloved in Iran....

    Anyway ... all this did your beloved President Reagan and his administration not hinder to make illegal weapon business with the Iran with parts for their F-4 Phantoms and F-14 Tomcats for example ... and then to use this black money to finance the illegal support of the Contra Terrorists in Honduras against evil lefty Nicaragua.

    And now ... Mullahs are in power for 40 years and nearly as long your enemy as the USSR was in cold war.
    Instead of slowly drawing a line from your side, it's your righty warmongers who will not rest until Iran surrenders to the US!
    But that's not what the rest of the world is doing and accept ... and no one of thems claims that the regime in Iran is an innocent angel! But you Americans see the evil only with your opponents, but completely ignore it with your puppets like Israel and Saudi Arabia!
     
  18. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Of course has everyone his skeletons in our closets ...
    What matters then is how to handle it.
    For example, why should not Iran have missiles from 4 to 5 thousand kilometers in range ... but Saudi Arabia was allowed to buy such missiles in China?
    Why is Israel allowed to have nuclear weapons and deny access to its reactor by the IAEA ... but for others like Iran, you're making big headlines right now, if the IAEA can not get inspectors to every corner of the country?

    You are right in the matter of the Nazis, because it was the Nazis who really planted anti-Semitism in the ME via the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem ... and until today Hitler's book "Mein Kampf" is in the ME with your opponents and allies Bestseller!
    However, Germany does not have a simple stand for you ... you take it Germany for example. bad that they have sold their excellent submarines to Israel ..

    https://www.dw.com/en/report-israel-outfitting-german-subs-with-nukes/a-15996173

    And that is exactly what plays an important role in the nuclear deterrence of Israel ... namely, they are constantly crossing with nuclear weapons in firing distance to Iran!
     
  19. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you don't generalize. I never liked our relationship with SA and even an ex-Algerian coworker said SA funds much of the terrorism in the region. When our tanks were pointed at Baghdad and I'd hear this is payback for 9/11, I'd say if you want payback for that, turn the tanks around toward Riyadh. As for Israel, plenty of Lefty American's take your side. Problem is, far too many foreigners see US government policies and think all American's agree with everything they do. The government has no trouble lying to the public in order to advance the agenda of certain powerful groups.
     
  20. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    No doubt hypocrisy plays a part, but I can see the point made that Israel is not threatening to wipe out any neighboring country while Iran had stated they wish to wipe out Israel. Also, Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty while Israel didn't.
     
  21. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you ... you can not generalize.
    However, in my case it is a criticism of the deeds, actions and statements of the US government ... and of those who still like what Donald Trump is doing!
    Likewise, I criticize the hypocrisy, arrogance and ignorance, which unfortunately is very often present.

    Let's take the Iranian missile program. The Iran Deal has deliberately taken care only of the nuclear program to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons. Everything else is minor important and would not have been really negotiable!
    But if Trump then ends the deal and the other justifies the fact that Iran illegally missiles developed and thus violates the deal, then that's a total lie!
    And as I said ... why is Iran not allowed to develop missiles but which Saudi Arabia owns? This shows how hypocritical the whole thing is ... especially because there is no international treaty with missiles such as nuclear weapons ... around which, however, Israel does not give a damn and illegally possesses nuclear weapons ... and very likely also Saudi Arabia owns nuclear weapons "Made in Pakistan".
     
  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    This is also because Israel directly made Iran an enemy among the mullahs after the overthrow of the Shah .... and does everything to keep the hostility.
    And does anyone actually believe that Iran will bombard with nuclear weapons ... if he knows that Israel will also make him a nuclear desert directly?
    And no ... please no one should come with the suicide bombers as a reason ... so according to the motto, Iran would do it as suicide reason. This is bullcrap!
     
  23. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Who are they going to use nukes on then? I know part of it is a deterrent to make sure the US never invades.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  24. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    The magic word is the same as that given in the Cold War: deterrence!
    It's not just against the US ... but also in general ... but in the case of the US, the war against Saddam, who gave up his WMD's after 1991 and was kicked off in 2003... but at the latest the overthrow of Gaddafi, who gave up his nuclear program and what made him vulnerable ... had been an educational experience for all opponents of the USA ...!
     
  25. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Whatever makes you feel important.
     

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