GERMANY JOINS CHORUS CASTING DOUBT ON TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CLAIM THAT IRAN WAS BEHIND ATTACK ON OIL

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Sobo, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Looks like neither Germany nor the EU in general plan to follow Trump in his Iran adventure. Pompeo said he want build an alliance of nations willing to act against Iran. Well...Germany and 27 otehr EU nations are out of this.





    Germany's Foreign Minister Heiko Maas on Friday cast doubt on evidence that the U.S. government claims is proof that Iran was behind an attack this week on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman.

    The attack on the two vessels, one Japanese and one Norwegian, took place as Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was visiting Iran to try to calm tensions between Tehran and Washington.

    The U.S. Navy later released a video that purported to show members of Iran's Revolutionary Guard sneaking over to the ship in the middle of the night to remove an unexploded mine. U.S. officials claimed this is evidence of Iran's culpability, but Maas argued that the video was insufficient proof to pin the attack on Iran.

    "The video is not enough. We can understand what is being shown, sure, but to make a final assessment, this is not enough for me," Maas told reporters during a press conference on Friday. The boat's Japanese owner also cast doubt on the theory that a mine had been used to attack the ship, telling journalists that members of his crew had witnessed a flying object.

    Iran has denied any role in the event, and some observers have raised questions about whether the intelligence was being used as a pretext for the U.S. to escalate conflict with the country.

    "Whether it's an attempt to remove Venezuela's democratic government or regime change in Iran, the USA is causing global instability in furtherance of its imperial interests. We must reject the lies being used by the Trump admin to gain public support for their disastrous plans," Chris Williamson, a member of the British parliament with the UK's Labour Party, said in a statement.

    The Conservative-led government in the UK, however, released an official statement saying that it is "almost certain" that Iran's military carried out the attack.

    A second U.S. ally, France, was less committal. While the French Foreign Ministry condemned the attack, it refrained from saying whether its government had assessed the U.S. intelligence or any other evidence.

    Meanwhile, European Union officials called for "maximum restraint."

    We are gathering more information and we are assessing the situation," a spokeswoman for the EU's foreign service told reporters.

    On Friday, President Donald Trump called the morning television show Fox & Friends and claimed unequivocally that Iran was behind the attack.

    "Iran did do it. And you know they did it because you saw the boat. I guess one of the mines didn't explode and it's probably got essentially Iran written all over it," Trump said during the early morning interview. "You saw the boat at night trying to take the mine off unsuccessfully. Took the mine off the boat. And that was exposed. That was their boat. That was them. And they didn't want the evidence left behind. I guess they didn't know that we have things that can detect in the dark that work very well."

    https://www.newsweek.com/iran-gulf-oman-germany-trump-administration-1444112
     
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  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah Iran doesn't have a history of blowing up ships, terrorism, or anything like that.

    Maybe it was the Russians or the Macedonians.
     
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  3. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    We dont need germany’s help in a war with iran

    But the germans and other advanced nations could help avoida war if they would honor the sanctions
     
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  4. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    USA did alot more terror attacks than Iran did. Same counts for Saudi Arabia.
     
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  5. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Which sanctions did the german government send against Iran?

    Last time i checked its US sanctions and i did not vote any of your representives.

    Right now, Germany has no sanctions against Iran.
     
  6. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    You dont have to do anything to avoid a war in the persian gulf if you dont want to
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey if you want to cozy up to Iran, go right ahead. Let's see what that gets you.

    Don't say we didn't warn you.

    If you think the US has committed more "terror attacks" than Iran, you clearly don't know much about the US or Iran.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  8. JessCurious

    JessCurious Active Member

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    Trump showed by recalling the planned air strike that he is not a warmonger. He had a perfect excuse. I have said repeatedly that the US does not want war with Iran. Air strikes can have
    only limited effect and they run the risk of Iran capturing downed American pilots. We simply do not have the military resources to invade a country of 80 million and an army of 420,000. The
    most troops we were able to deploy in Iraq was 140,000, and we had a hard time maintaining that. Iraq had a population of 40 million and a much weaker army than Iran. Our army is war
    weary from long conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran knows these facts as well. That is why Iran has been so provocative - they know they can get away with it. The Iranian thoecracy
    rules through oppression and has to keep looking tough to keep their own people in line. Tyrants can't afford to look weak. So Iran attacked the tankers, rocketted Saudi Arabia and shot
    down the drone. They look tough to their people, and they know the USA does not want war. If Trump staged the drone incident and tha tanker incidents, and doesn't want war, what
    motive would he have?
     
  9. patentlymn

    patentlymn Active Member

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    The US is like the boy that cried wolf. In the end there was a wolf but no one believed him.
    The US govt lies so much that they have lost all credibility. The Syria gas attacks, Skripal affair, Libya, etc some to mind. It would be nice is the US waited until evidence was in before attaching blame.

    IMO I might have been the Iranians. I could have been the Saudis or Israelis or US also.
    I have no idea.

    Here is a Hannity vs. Geraldo video clip. I don't much like either person but Geraldo makes more sense here.
     
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  10. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    Relax dude Trump isn't going to war with Iran.
     
  11. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Nobody cares! It’s not front page news here.
    But us potentially sanctioning your companies for violating our sanctions is definitely front page news for you in Germany.
     
  12. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    We dont "cozy up " with Iran. We hold nomal and friendly diplomatic relations.
     
  13. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Which you wont. You did not as we ignored your sanctions against Cuba. And you also did not, when we ignored your sanctions against Iraq.

    Go on and sanction German, French and UK companies. You will never do that.
     
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  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Go right ahead. All you'll get in return are mosques in Germany and chants of "death to Germany" for your efforts.

    I mean if you want to choose to have relations with a major global terrorist nation that hates western culture, is full of Islamic fundamentalists who want to bring on Armageddon, knock yourself out.
     
  15. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    UK is on our side. ;)
    French are drawing lines to Iran about nuclear material (or to save face).
    You are on your own. And nobody here really cares. If I were you I’d be worrying about Russian SSC-8. ;)
     
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  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    History is likewise not evidence of their culpability in this attack. Shame this fake president has completely destroyed American credibility, isn't it? Now you can't have the bloodbath in Iran that you want simply because war profiteers have been telling you for years and years that you want it.
     
  17. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Germany and Iran are allied since almost 150 years. You have no clue. We hold diplomatic relations longer with Iran than with USA. Goethe for example was a huge admirerer of Iran.
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the Trump admin has lied so much, I do not blame other countries for needing more proof
     
  19. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    UK is not on your side. UK signed the treaty and heaveily critisitzed USA

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-office-tory-leadership-contest-a8973781.html

    France basicly set the line that Germany also follows. 100% Anti USA. 100% Anti-Trump. France is more Anti-USA though. Germany at least tries to not show its disgust openly.
     
  20. patentlymn

    patentlymn Active Member

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    I woudn't blame Trump even though the buck stops with him. The intelligence agencies feed him info and he acts on it. Trump is more resistant to the intelligence agencies than previous presidents in recent history. When Trump does not believe the intelligence agencies and says so the press and the Dems throw a fit. Congress was briefed in detail by the intelligence agencies about the WMDs in Iraq and decided to go to war. Bill Clinton was briefed about a Sudan pharma plant making bioweapons and bombed the place. Oops. Why anyone believes these clowns now is beyond me.
     
  21. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Our then foreign minister Fischer openly said he is not convinced to Rumsfeld when USA started war against Iraq. He did so in public while Rumsfeld was present.



    You know whats most funny? Fischer told Rumsfeld here, that USA will have to occupy Iraq for decades. It will plunge into chaos and so on. BAsicly the German diplomatic corp said Rumsfeld 1:1 what happened later
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh I know.

    Germany might not still agree with the "final solution", but Iran does.

    As I said, if you want to be allied to a radical Islamist terror regime, go right ahead. You'll reap what you sow there.
     
  23. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah that's why Reagan got fed up with Iran's terrorism and bitch slapped them for it.

    But sure, continue your stoic defense of a terrorist state that either funds, or directly participates, in this sort of action every day.
     
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You have to enjoy how much expertise non-Americans have about American affairs. I'm not sure what causes the anti-Americanism but it is a waste of time.
     
  25. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm thinking it might be the administration's fault more than that of the intel agencies. As you say, they act on briefings. Unless it can be shown that the briefings and intel were inaccurate, I don't see how those agencies can be blamed.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2001/10/were-the-sudanese-making-chemical-weapons.html

    ...
    The verdict: If the lab results showing EMPTA in the soil are legitimate, there’s very little doubt that the Sudanese factory was somehow involved with the production or the shipment of VX.

    The lab results weren’t obtained using a reliable sampling and analysis protocol, Barletta notes, and he speculates that the results could be a false positive. But it’s unclear how the United States could be expected to follow a reliable sampling and analysis protocol using covert operatives in Sudan.

    Still, at the very least, U.S. intelligence was shaky, and the Clinton administration may have let the desire for a quick strike supersede the need to finish its homework before taking action.
    ...​
     

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