Gig workers’ win in California is a victory for workers everywhere

Discussion in 'United States' started by Bearack, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wish I could agree with you on that; however republicans want total control over the workers; they want to decide for all intents and purposes your terms and conditions of employment with little or no input from the employee; republicans favor laws that are anti-worker in nature.

    If republicans are for lower taxes, then why do they continue to spend more money then is taken in from taxes? This year alone they are projected to spend over a trillion dollars more then taxes taken in thus increasing the federal deficit.
     
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  2. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am going to tell a story my boss once told me:

    Everybody works for themselves. Every single person in our work force is "yourname inc.". Everybody is in business for themselves. When people get an education, get some experience, and obtain skills desired in the workforce, they can then sell those skills to customers.

    For people that have full-time W2 jobs, great! You scored a great 'contract' with one customer who said "You're so great, we will pay you for your skills with so much work you won't need any other customers". For people that are independent contractors, they sell their skills to multiple customers. Owners of companies simply take their own skills, the skills of their employees, and the skills of their independent contractors and sell them to other customers.

    There is absolutely nothing standing in the way of a full-time or part-time W2 employee from saying "Hey, I think I can sell direct to customers too and keep the markup for myself". Or... if somebody thinks that they aren't being paid fairly by their customer (employer), they are free to try and sell those same skills to another customer, either another employer or a whole bunch of employers/customers as an owner of contractor.

    The point is. Everybody is "Myself Incorporated". Everybody has the opportunity to participate in the labor market (really the skills market) to sell any and all skills they possess.

    This law is stupid, and tries to take people who prefer to sell their skills to multiple people, even as their own business operating as a contractor, and force them to sell to only one customer. And that is the problem with most in government. They simply don't get how business works, how the skills market works, and only see their authority to "fix" problems that don't exist.
     
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  3. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's okay; you cannot put a price tag on justice.
     
  4. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not really true. A true independent contractor such as someone who owns his own company who contracts with another business to fix screen doors (as an example) will not have any issues with the government.
     
  5. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    That really depends on the individual and their situation.

    For instance, a company I worked with laid off all its graphic designers. They are expecting income from free lancing until they can find a job with a company who is looking for full time employees.

    My husband was a contractor that put up siding. It put food on the table and could be nice payout. But if the companies that used him as a contractor could not depend on that type of arrangement my husband's options would have been drastically limited.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    The great question. Are they really THAT stupid (incapable of a level of forethought even an 8 year old is capable of), or is it all deliberate? It defies understanding of the adult human to accept the former - adulthood being the time when forethought is in play in all decisions - so it must be the latter. If that's the case, what's the goal?
     
  7. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Because of entitlements mainly. I haven't heard your party wanting to do anything about them.
     
  8. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Why would he have to own his own company? In that case he's already both an employee and probably an employer. I'm not sure this crackpot idea can overrule the concept of being an independent contractor, which the IRS has long defined:

    https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...ependent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  9. wist43

    wist43 Well-Known Member

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    I made more money, much more money, as an independent contractor, than I ever did as an employee working for someone else.

    That extra revenue put me in position to start my own company.

    You leftists are determined to use government force to make the citizenry nothing more than an obedient puppy dogs.

    Freedom comes with risks and rewards; and, it's the only way to fly ;)
     
  10. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's because trump is president.
     
  11. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I bet someone will say the same about 1099 workers in the construction industry! Lol

    But only a joker or toker would make that claim .

    The labor changes since the change to neoliberalism in the 80s has benefited primarily the ones at the top just as illegal immigration and offshoring much of our full time jobs in manufacturing .

    Workers were left behind by the DP in the 90s leaving workers with no representation. Turned into 21st century neo serfs.

    How much of our economy is now gig jobs 1099 jobs and part time jobs?

    Truth is many businessmen today see people who work as just another commodity and have little responsibility other than maxing out their own income and having no responsibility to their employees, their customers or the community they are a part of. Resembling a parasite . .Parasitic capitalism that thinks it is above decency and morality! This is what neoliberalism gave us.

    Americans once had some job security and could live on their income with no welfare . All you needed was a job to make ends meet. Now the changes have taken that away from millions that have no security .

    Workers once had decent security and stable jobs but that has been taken away. And not only are corporate dems love it but also people who call themselves conservative

    There has been decades of war on working people and they were beaten to the ground and gang kicked These people are not worth the kind of pay their dad and grand dad were. For those people were paid too much! Only the professional class is worth a living wage!

    But it was once different when labor had enough value to house and feed Americans.

    This is all ****ed up but the new normal.
     
  12. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    The slack of the laid-off freelance journalists is going to be picked up by out-of-state freelance journalists. The law only applies to freelancers in California, because, fortunately, California only has the power to regulate their own citizens out of work.
    The companies will not hire them back. They'll just hire out-of-state freelancers, or they'll just do without, or shut down completely.

    This isn't theoretical, this is exactly what's happening. What you suggest is going to happen is progressive fantasy, what is happening is reality.

    See how that works?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  13. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    How about independent contractors such as musicians? Will they have any issues if every gig they do is required to hire them as employees?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    1099ers in construction are not considered the "gig" economy. But only a joker or toker would make that claim .

    We have the highest standard of living, a glut of unfilled good paying jobs, rising wages, our retirement accounts producing returns we have not seen in decades. I've never been beaten up or dragged I've always had good jobs and no job is ever permanent but when my situation has changes it has always been to my advantage and that was not because of luck or being fortunate. It was because I was drivin and cryin and blaming someone else or looking to government to remedy it. Yes labor is an expense but you fail to realize that labor TURNOVER makes it highly more expensive. Labor is a competitive market where YOU sell your labor and you compete against others. Your labor is a risk/reward equation the more risk you are willing to take, I'm in commissioned sales highly risky, the more you will make.

    But back to the topic at hand why is the government injecting itself into this free market arraignment between a company and the people willing to work as independent contractors to them.
     
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  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They will if they hire contract workers for the jobs they win the contracts for.
     
  16. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    His party isn’t in power. Yours is. They had total control of Congress and the White House for 2 years. They control the senate and whites house now.
     
  17. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's the big deal; you hire them in the morning and lay them off in the afternoon. There are companies that do it with freelancers everyday.
     
  18. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    LOL, strange if they're anti-worker they've sure created a lot more of them under Trump. Unions love the new trade deal replacing NAFTA.

    Mostly due to entitlements. Haven't heard Nancy or any Dem candidates discuss curbing that problem.
     
  19. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    They are in the House, where spending originates. I do think in Trump's second term he'll address the deficit, no doubt hard to do when you're fighting off Deep State coup attempts and joke impeachments.
     
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  20. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Either that or because Tehran Nancy is speaker.
     
  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    irrelevant. Your party controls The senate and white house.

    Why didn’t he address it when he had total control of Congress and the White House? It’s because you guys don’t actually give a **** about debt and deficits. You only pretend to when democrats are in power.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  22. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Military spending is up quite a bit as is foreign aid. Cutting back on both would go a long way to help reduce spending. Btw, both sides are guilty of overspending.
     
  23. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    The bolded is the toxic part. It might not put you out on the streets, but about half of Americans can't cover a $400 "crisis" without going into debt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  24. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    When was America at it's greatest? Before or after the New Deal? Before or after Child Labor laws? Before or after the first minimum wage law? After all that, of course.

    Americans are souring on capitalism. Tucker Carlson sounds a lot like Elizabeth Warren these days. When someone's breaking their back just to get by, it's human nature to resent the people who park their yachts inside their yachts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  25. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    That is Trump's view, just because you've always gotten foreign aid doesn't mean you get it forever with no strings attached.
     

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