How are we better off post Iran deal?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Iran is the largest state supporter of terrorism. Iran has vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the map. This deal removed all sanctions, which took their crippled economy and made it healthy and robust. This deal did not give us any real means of inspecting their facilities in order to ensure compliance.

    The net result was that we got nothing out of this deal, and Iran receive $150 billion and a healthy economy due to the lifting of all sanctions. A healthy economy gave the largest state supporter of terrorism the means to more effectively create chaos throughout the middle east, and it gave them more capital to invest in long range missile systems etc.

    Pulling out of this deal served our interests because it financially hampers Iran's ability to create chaos and to fund its missile program. Pulling out of this deal dropped the facade that Iran was a nation in good standing with the world body.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Barack Obama no longer needs to pay off any political debts.

    Back in April Obama suckered punched the PC liberals when he said 'asking someone to speak English isn't racist.'

    Obama said that undocumented Democrats should speak English in America.
     
  3. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    So, the German state, a democracy, has no checks and balances on what your chancellor does?

    I prefer American law - every agreement must be approved by the senate. That prevents the POTUS from making deals that most lawmakers disagree with. At the same time time, an approved deal cannot be just scraped by the sitting president as he/she would need an approval from senate as well.
    The power of the POTUS is being misjudged by many foreigners - that position is much weaker than many realize.
     
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  4. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much so. Why you think Merkel rules like a queen and can turn her politics 180° from one day to the other?

    Look in 2015 she let migrants in without asking parliament. In 2016 sealed the border and orders deportation, deportation, deportation.

    One day she prolongs nuclear power. Then next day stops it.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Will we be stronger in ten years or weaker? will Iran be stronger in ten years or weaker? More importantly will our regional allies be stronger or weaker in ten years? Iran will be stronger in ten years, almost geometrically so our regional allies under constant harassment and threat from Iran and it's various proxies will almost certainly be weaker, and if the Dems do take over the government in 2020 I guarantee the US will be far weaker. Logically the time to do this if we do anything at all is now.
     
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's easy. The Repub controlled Senate did not want to give credit to Obama for the accomplishment.........or any accomplishment.

    https://armscontrolcenter.org/the-real-facts-on-the-iran-nuclear-negotiations/
     
  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    We were stronger when we had someone who could build a coalition of nations to fight foreign wars. Trump has flushed that down the toilet. If we go to war in Iran, we could very well be the only country fighting for our side. That's all on Trump.
     
  8. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    The UN resolution has everything to do with the nuclear agreement. Iran found a loophole in the agreement and exploited it. I'm willing to bet you did not know your country filed a complaint with the UN along with France and the UK. Iran refused to renegotiate the agreement to fix the legal flaw so Trump rightfully pulled the US out. The countries that signed the agreement like Germany have undermined Trump in getting the Iranians back to the table to fix the loophole. Germany complains about Iran breaking the agreement but does nothing to force Iran to comply with the agreement. The UN is useless and Germany is Iran's lapdog.
     
  9. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Do you think it helps your cause to insult your allies?
     
  10. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    And maybe if Obama had allowed congress to review the agreement they would have found the flaw that prevents the UN from legally preventing Iran from making ICBM's that can carry a nuclear warhead. Germany, France and the UK among other UN countries filed a complaint of non-compliance with the agreement. Trump wanted to renegotiate the agreement to close the loophole but Iran refused. If those countries who had signed the agreement in faith joined Trump in refusing to honor the agreement it's very likely Iran would have agreed to renegotiating the agreement to close the legal loophole. Until this happens Iran will continue to be emboldened in exploiting the flaw in the agreement.
     
  11. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    So for you it's not about doing the right thing, it's about your ego?
     
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  12. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    We see it as the right thing to keep our promise. We signed this agreement with Iran. We will not break our word.

    You know what? If Trump would value his allies he would have called Germany, France and UK and tried to find a solution all can agree with.
     
  13. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    Every country whose oil tankers pass through the Strait of Hormuz has a responsibility to join the US in protecting the shipping lanes. The US has been protecting the shipping lanes for decades for the world. What do you think will happen if the US leaves the Strait of Hormuz? I'm sure Iran would love to see the US leave.
     
  14. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

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    Germany complained about Iran not keeping their promise. What has Germany done since they filed a complaint? For two years while Trump was campaigning he made it clear the agreement was not being honored by Iran. They all knew what Trump was going to do if Iran refused to renegotiate the deal to close the loophole. What has Germany or France done to get Iran back to the negotiating table? Instead Germany and France have undermined Trump by trying to please Iran.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  15. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    If we left the Straights, then European countries would either make treaties with Iran or go to war. Their choice. A good negotiator would try and build a coalition to work those countries to help control Iran. A bad negotiator tell his allies to **** off and unilaterally disengages. Trump is a bad negotiator.
     
  16. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Now they are going to do it for sure. How did that help us to avoid war? Trump did all this just to spite Obama. It wasn't about keeping peace or preventing Iran from getting nukes. It was all about petty jealousy from a pathetic narcissist named Trump.
     
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  17. Sobo

    Sobo Well-Known Member

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    Why would Iran attack German tankers that buy oil from Iran and send to Germany?
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    We gained nothing but lost plenty, and it's only because we have a criminal-minded thug in the WH who has no understanding of what the presidency is, and worse, doesn't care. He should have been impeached LONG before this.
     
  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    And so far no one has an answer. I guess all agree we are not better off.
     
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    HOW CAN WE WATCH CLOSELY WITHOUT THE IRAN AGREEMENT??????????????????????????????
     
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  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    NOT. TRUE.
     
  22. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Ratifizierung
    Von der Bundesregierung ausgehandelte völkerrechtliche Verträge, die die politischen Beziehungen des Bundes regeln oder sich auf Gegenstände der Bundesgesetzgebung beziehen, bedürfen der Zustimmung oder der Mitwirkung der für die Bundesgesetzgebung zuständigen Körperschaften. Das heißt, Bundestag und Bundesrat müssen den Verträgen zustimmen. Der Bundespräsident schließt namens des Bundes die Verträge. Im Bundestag werden Ratifizierungsvorhaben, für die ein eigenes Gesetz erforderlich ist, in zwei Lesungen durchgeführt.

    Contracts with other countries need ratification of both houses, Bundestag and Senate in Germany.
     
  23. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    So @Sobo is wrong then.
    Did Germany government ratify the agreement with Iran?
     
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  24. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you call Iran using relaxed sanctions to fund terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and sponsor the Houthies in Yemen a sign of stability, I would disagree. A broke sponsor of terrorism is better than one that is flush with Obama bucks any day of the week.
     
  25. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    And Trump would have been better served to have brokered a SEPARATE deal on those items while leaving the nuclear treaty in place. But his only concern was petty jealousy against Obama. His entire first two years were consumed by jealousy over Obama. He could have worked out a better healthcare plan - but he had to scrap the whole thing just because it was somehow linked to Obama. The guy is just consumed with petty narcissism.
     
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