Is Trump guilty of suborning perjury?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Up to now there have been many questions about Trump and obstruction of justice. For example, did Trump have the right to fire James Comey in an attempt to halt or delay a federal investigation into his conduct? Many say Trump was well within his right to do so, ergo, he can fire anyone in his administration. Others, say that is the classic example of obstruction of justice when the President is the one being investigated.

    As we are learning today, everyone agrees that suborning perjury is obstruction of justice and an impeachable offense.

    BuzzFeed News reported, "President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, according to two federal law enforcement officials involved in an investigation of the matter.

    "Trump also supported a plan, set up by Cohen, to visit Russia during the presidential campaign, in order to personally meet President Vladimir Putin and jump-start the tower negotiations. “Make it happen,” the sources said Trump told Cohen.

    "Cohen pleaded guilty in November to lying about the deal in testimony and in a two-page statement to the Senate and House intelligence committees. Special counsel Robert Mueller noted that Cohen’s false claim that the project ended in January 2016 was an attempt to “minimize links between the Moscow Project and Individual 1” — widely understood to be Trump — “in hopes of limiting the ongoing Russia investigations.

    "Now the two sources have told BuzzFeed News that Cohen also told the special counsel that after the election, the president personally instructed him to lie — by claiming that negotiations ended months earlier than they actually did — in order to obscure Trump’s involvement."

    We already know from Trump's defense attorney, Rudy Giuliani, that negotiations over the Moscow Trump Tower continued on into November 2016, not January 2016. Trump claimed the negotiations ended in January 2016.

    "According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to November of 2016," Giuliani said on ABC's "This Week," apparently referring to Trump's written answers to special counsel Robert Mueller regarding the deal. This means that during the entire election campaign, Trump had a stake in the Russian government.

    The BuzzFeed article contains this significant information. The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...ssia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation

    Trump is to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong-un for a second summit by the end of February, the White House announced today. So, Kim has Trump tied around his little finger. We all know that. That is not news.

    According to Fox News, Trump tweeted that he’ll make “a major announcement” Saturday afternoon concerning the ongoing partial government shutdown.

    Who cares unless Trump is going to end his shutdown. Nor do we care about another useless summit with Kim.

    Both are pathetic distractions from the real news of the day. If the BuzzFeed story can be confirmed through "emails, text messages, a cache of other documents, and corroborating testimony, Trump is toast. Even the Republicans in the Senate will have to agree that he should be impeached and removed from office.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  2. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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  3. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    IF BuzzFeed is right and if Mueller provides corroboration is his right, then, yes, this is it.
     
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  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Mueller just stated that the buzzfeed article is false.
     
  5. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    If, if, if, -- even tonight NBC reported the Buzzfeed story but then said it might not be true. This is sick reporting.
    --Here's how Media Bias/Fact Check website describes Buzzfeed . . .
    Buzzfeed -- These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation.
    Factual Reporting: MIXED
    Country: USA
    World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180
     
  6. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Well-Known Member

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    Liberals are SO SLOW they can't even keep up with the FAKE NEWS. Buzzcrap has been debunked already. CNN is busy swallowing crow right now.

    You don't 'got em' :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
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  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    I should point out, the title of this thread is a question, not a statement.
     
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  8. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    So. The REAL NEWS OF THE DAY is a question? Doesn't sound like real news to me.
     
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  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, I got that, after I submitted my article. As Trump likes to say, we will see what happens. This much we know.

    We know from Trump's defense attorney, Rudy Giuliani, that negotiations over the Moscow Trump Tower continued on into November 2016, not January 2016. Trump claimed the negotiations ended in January 2016.

    "According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to November of 2016," Giuliani said on ABC's "This Week," apparently referring to Trump's written answers to special counsel Robert Mueller regarding the deal. This means that during the entire election campaign, Trump had a stake in the Russian government.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday...-trump-tower-moscow-discussions-took-place-up

    This is why Trump would want Cohen to lie. Like I said, we'll see.
     
  10. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Actually it was June 2016. Please note this has been a 20 year off again off again negotiation with Trump wanting to build a luxury hotel in Moscow and Putin throwing out road blocks of one sort or one would think after all this time that Trump would be just as happy to negotiate with someone else. One should be forgiven for thinking given Putin's back ground that one of the sticking points might be incorporating spy gear in some of the suits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  11. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    If the report is accurate, it is their - the House and the Senate - sworn duty to impeach him and remove him from office.

    The Constitution doesn't say the President may be removed for high crimes and misdemeanors, it says he SHALL be removed.

    And it is becoming more and more certain that before this is over, trump will be up on treason charges. He is almost certainly conspiring against the US with Putin,
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  12. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only catch is, much of what you promote depends upon "sources" who never are revealed. And so in the place of actual fact, we get conjecture.

    Well, I have a very good source that says hillary is a reptilian and eats newborn humans. And that is the way I see these unnamed sources. I will wait on any hard evidence and then judge trump from the big picture view.

    Trump needs to be guilty of felonies, and then we must make sure we do not prosecute him when we refuse to prosecute intel heads to lie to congress under oath about very important things that affect the american people. So, it cannot be lying, for we allow these bastards in high positions to lie to congress under oath all of the time. Just treat him the way we treat others in DC.
     
  13. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Keep telling yourself that until your entire world blows up. ;)
     
  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually, and intriguing question supported by backup substantiation, as is the case here, can be very interesting news, as is the case here.

    We know this from The Hill article from December. "Cohen last month pleaded guilty to lying to Congress about plans to build a Trump property in Moscow, plans he initially said were scrapped in January 2016, but actually continued well into the presidential campaign according to his confession." As into November 2016, the entire campaign.

    Are we to believe Cohen lied on his own? Trump would not want voters to know he was negotiating a hotel in Moscow while running for President. We are to believe he said nothing about this to his personal lawyer who was about to testify before Congress? That is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

    https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday...-trump-tower-moscow-discussions-took-place-up
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Really, got a link. If Mueller actually commented that would be a first!
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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  17. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    If candidate Trump knowingly denied business dealing with Russia during his campaign, he perjured himself.

    It's a crime under the law.
     
  18. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The Washington Post and AP News carries Mueller's denial of the buzzfeed story.
     
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    .?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  20. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    If you are really fast you can read the headlines without subscribing to the paper.
    Just google "washington post on buzz feed story"
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Both Fox and CNN have reported it. So I'm sure you can find it at either site if you care to look
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    Dang that has to be disappointing.

    You know what happens when you light a great big firecracker with a short fuse and bend over to look at it? It blows up in your face.
     
  23. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    "pathetic distraction" says it all.

    BTW, I learned that "nobody is above the law" from the republicans trying to convict clinton with evidence from a devil with a blue dress on.
     
  24. Cal-Pak

    Cal-Pak Active Member

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    Ah, Muller never said the article was false.


    Buzzfeed said Muller has emails and texts proving Trump told Cohen to lie.

    If Muller has audio tapes of Trump telling Cohen to lie, and not emails or texts.
    Then the article is not accurate. But it is also, not false.

    Remember, Cohen reportedly recorded lots of things.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  25. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Now that Mueller has cred with the right, they will believe every word of his findings.
     

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