Is Yangs UBI going to work?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by ChristopherABrown, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,473
    Likes Received:
    6,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please direct quote me where I said anyone would give up their car. No need to outright lie because you fail so miserably to discuss what is being talked about.
     
  2. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good for you! How many people in the world are just like you? Have the same mental capacity as you or the ability to learn like you? Do you know the difference between an HDMI and analog cable and what makes an HDMI superior to the analog? Whats the difference between DOS and C++? Can you build your own computer? Can you answer any of these questions without first looking them up on the net?

    Did you know that Yang actually addresses people ability to learn new things when the government has previously offered people education in new fields? The rate of success was abysmal. It's one of the reasons that I liked him and initially supported him. He actually has done his homework and has answered many of the questions being asked in this thread.
     
  3. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're only thinking on a direct personal level. re-read what he said. We're talking about automation here. Not just personally owned automobiles. Think about it. How many companies out there use vehicles to make a living? How about every cab company in existence? Every trucking company in existence? What about bus companies? Do you have any idea how many vehicles and jobs that is? And those are just the obvious types of companies.

    And actually people do like the idea of a summonable vehicle that can drive itself. Look at Tesla for evidence of that. Hell, I would LOVE to own a Tesla. Bit pricey for me granted. But they're also not your normal mass producing car company either. If they ever get that way you can bet the prices will come down and more and more people will buy from them....or companies like them. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to own a '65 Mustang also. But that doesn't negate that I would love to have a Tesla also.
     
  4. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll give up 10% on top of what I'm already paying in taxes. You?
     
  5. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I don't.

    But I do know that it takes a lot more humans to build a car on an assembly line than it would take to repair a robot. I also know that not all people are capable of learning a new skill. No matter how hard they try. And I know that there is a massive difference between today's technology and learning that technology vs that of switching from plugging in some cords to learning how to repair a mechanical switch or some similar job. I also understand that technology is progressing at a lot faster pace than it did in those times. The same ability to retrain isn't going to be near as possible. And those retraining efforts back then weren't all that great to begin with. Not to mention the difference in culture between then and now. Back then you could have one person working while the other stayed home so it wasn't a big deal if someone dropped out of the workforce (and therefore were not counted in unemployment records). Now a days you NEED two people in a family to be working and the loss of a job has more of an impact.

    Like it or not there IS an impact to automation. And it WILL be felt. Do you really believe that EVERYONE can learn high skilled jobs? No matter their age and understanding/capabilities?
     
  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually Yang spend a lot of his time talking to truckers out on the road. While I do agree that the change will happen gradually I don't think it will be gradual enough. This is going to impact a LOT of people. Not just in the trucking industry, but in the cabbing industry, busing industry and many others. For example: Right now there is a company in Japan that has made an almost fully automated lettuce farm which was going to increase their production of lettuce heads from 30k to 50k a day. And they purposely left the one job of planting the seeds to people. The rest is totally automated. Note that this was back in 2017 when I first read the article, I can only guess that they have since implemented everything.

    Basically automation is going to take over every single mundane task eventually. And it looks to me like, at least with you and me, we're in agreement on all but the timing of it all. And that difference may be exactly why I think that we should be implementing a UBI now vs later. And unlike others in this thread (and of course elsewhere in the world) I don't believe that everyone is trainable in high skilled jobs. Certainly not with the way we teach now a days....and ESPECIALLY with how resistant people are to "free education" (I know, its not free but for berevity lets use that term).
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    23,773
    Likes Received:
    6,614
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And you're going to eat all the people you're going to be shooting at if hunting becomes necessary on a large scale? Because we will be eating cats by that time, There are more deer now than there ever were before and they would still all last about a week if people really needed them

    Millennials go to a Farmer's Market every week and think they're surviving off the grid. You need to look at the photo's of 60 foot combines harnessed in teams of 10 and being driven by satellites from SPACE to get even a small idea of how much 300 million people eat.

    Yang's idea is something we are going to need and sooner rather than later, but that is just the reason we can't make him the candidate this time. He. Won't. Win. and if Trump wins I think we very well might be eating felines by 2024

    I buy a new car because it's easier to drive. I like to go out to go places and do things, and driving is something I have to do to get there. I'd love to be able to summon an Uber at any time but it's too expensive. An autonomous car would be great but it's got to be a LOT cheaper.
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    103,537
    Likes Received:
    15,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't tend to look down on people as you seem to do that is for sure. Programmed Logic Control, it what programs machines and there automation. Doesn't require a 4 year college degree LOTS of maintenance workers learn on the job or special education. My state offers a free two course in industrial automation. And it's not just repair the robot, robots just don't magically appear at the HR department applying for a job. Had you been around at the end of the 19th century I guess you would have been demanding the same as machines took over manual labor on the farm. Over half the work used to be in farming. Automation, machines, took over that work. Did that lower our standard of living?
     
    JET3534 likes this.
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    103,537
    Likes Received:
    15,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    None I'll keep it invested in companies that create jobs and hire people to EARN their income. Pay people not to work and what do you get?
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    31,373
    Likes Received:
    8,402
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one said it was a good deal. The VAT is regressive so it will hit the poor and lower middle hardest, taking away a lot of the advantage of the UBI. But UBI isn't really aimed at the poor. Politically it's aged at the college aged and people in their twenties who think they'll get more beer and weed money for nothing.
     
    JET3534 likes this.
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    103,537
    Likes Received:
    15,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I use my vehicle to make a living. I work in manufacturing of all types.

    If they ever solve the range and recharge and price I'd look at one but not because it would autonomous I'd still want to drive it. And you do realize you can't put urning autodrive and take a nap or read a book.
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    103,537
    Likes Received:
    15,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Universal Basic Income: An Idea That's Already Been Tried And Failed

    .....While politicians often try to package UBI as a fresh new idea, the concept has been tried before. And unsurprisingly, it hasn't worked.

    In 2017, Finland experimented with a pilot program, putting 2,000 randomly chosen Finns on UBI, with the government providing a monthly check of €560. But earlier this year, Finland abruptly decided to not extend its experiment. Although the Finnish government doesn't plan to release the findings until the end of 2019, some point to the program's price tag as one of the main reasons it was doomed to fail from the start.
    In fact, according to an independent analysis, Finland would have been forced to raise their income tax by nearly 30% to keep such a program alive. And when the personal income tax rate in Finland already maxes out at more than 50%, another increase would likely prove unsustainable.

    Finland is not the only example where the flaws of UBI have been exposed.

    In Canada, Ontario's government decided to launch a UBI experiment in July of last year. But a few months ago, they decided to end the experiment — two years ahead of schedule. Upon the conclusion of the trial, a Canadian official called the experiment "quite expensive" and said "it was certainly not going to be sustainable."...
    https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/universal-basic-income-experiments-fail/
     
    Lil Mike likes this.
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    55,097
    Likes Received:
    35,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Handing people fish is never preferable to teaching them how to fish.

    The government wants you to depend on the government in order to have more power.

    All of the Democrats suggestions are about them maintaining power, and that is all it is about.
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    55,097
    Likes Received:
    35,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I love when people make fun of other people's possessions, as if owning a $5k car makes you an untermensch.

    "Your value as a human being is directly in proportion to the value of your belongings" - The Tolerant Left
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  15. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    2,483
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When the Jamestown colony was failing in the early 1600s John Smith established a principle whereby if an able bodied person did not work they did not eat. The same concept should apply today. The lazy bums that wan to live on other peoples money can get a job.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
    FatBack likes this.
  16. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    2,483
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joe Biden said out-of-work coal miners could learn to code. And several liberals here on PO said this was true. Ergo, problem solved.
     
  17. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,473
    Likes Received:
    6,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am far from tolerant or left but when a poster does nothing but try to derail and deflect in every response to me I am not going to be courteous. Furthermore, please show me where I made fun of the Z4, it’s inexpensive (used), fairly reliable with great safety specs — it just has nothing to do with what I posted or was quoted on. Care to comment on the discussion or are you joining in on the derailment because you cannot address the thoughts laid out in the OP?
     
  18. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    55,097
    Likes Received:
    35,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As for the OP, I already commented on it. In fact, it's right above my response to you.

    You should try reviewing this 2 page thread if that's not too much at once.

    As for your deflection, there's no other reason to mention the value of a car at $5k than sneering.

    You and I both know what it was. You're welcome to deny it if you'd like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  19. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,473
    Likes Received:
    6,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There was no reason to mention the personal vehicle at all — and no, you did not comment on the portion of my reply that the poster you are defending chose to deflect.
     
  20. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    811
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you familiar with the funding for UBI?
     
    ChristopherABrown likes this.
  21. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    55,097
    Likes Received:
    35,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like I said, you're welcome to deny.
     
  22. StarFox

    StarFox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    823
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Corporations don't ever pay any taxes, even if a check goes to the government it comes from lower employee salaries, or higher costs of goods. Consumers pay 100% of all taxes one way or the other. Prove me wrong on that. Taxing corporations is just a shell game. A stupid one at that.
     
    JET3534 likes this.
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    103,537
    Likes Received:
    15,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And especially when they get it so wrong.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    103,537
    Likes Received:
    15,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I addressed you post directly as usual and with all civility. If you choose to do otherwise that is your problem not mine. And my post about the Z4 had everything to do with what you were posting that people would love to not have to drive and have autonomous cars they just call up. Not me and the Z4 3.0si six speed manual is evidence of that. It's not even about price as much as you were off.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  25. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,473
    Likes Received:
    6,938
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You did not address my post in the slightest.
     

Share This Page