Is Yangs UBI going to work?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by ChristopherABrown, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like I said, There was no reason to mention the personal vehicle at all — and no, you did not comment on the portion of my reply that the poster you are defending chose to deflect.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What taxes are major corporations not paying that they owe? Do you invest your retirement savings in companies that don't make $s? Do you even had a retirement account?
     
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I addressed this specifically where you are commenting on personal use of an automobile.

     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  4. ChristopherABrown

    ChristopherABrown Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that corporations making billions will be paying the most because it is their automation putting people out of work. Their profits also go up as expenses go down.

    Aside from that, the poor could always act more and more independently which is great because it is automatically decentralized. With that view, the UBI is transitional.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Hand a man a fish and you feed him for a day

    Teach a man to fish and he'll sleep all day while fishing for beer cans in a boat and then go tell utter lies at a bar before his wife calls.
     
  6. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, and the same thing goes for health insurance. The consumers are the ones who pay for covered employees health coverage employer financed. The only portion of corporate tax receipts that is actually a positive for the American citizen is products made here for export. The problem in doing away with corporate taxes is that it will be the super rich who benefit more proportionately in this existing personal tax laws.

    I have been a proponent of getting rid of corporate taxes and going with a flat tax of 32 percent with a deduction for family size and a 5% 401K. No SS but a fed poverty level income after 45 years of work phased in by 2045. And national heath insurance.
     
  7. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Corporations are owed by people, those people could be made to pay that tax.
     
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  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Basic reading comprehension is sorely lacking if you believe your personal car is relevant.
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Specific to your comment about the driving habits of Americans sorry you don't comprehend your own post.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You've got to understand the Left/MSM/Progs believe corporations are some dark autonomous entities that crawl out of the swamps at night and exist is some dark chambers sucking the wealth of the lower classes wanting to impoverish the masses and enslave everyone.

    When in fact if they look at their own pensions and IRA's and 401-k they we say "we have seen the corporations and they are us".
     
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  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who cares what he does as long as he provides for himself.
     
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  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Take it from the corporations raking in record profits and sheltering them from taxes in umpteen different ways. It'll work great.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well Yang's plan isn't for corporations paying more, except as a side effect of paying the VAT when they purchase goods and services.

    I've never heard of such a large social program being transitional. Do you seriously think the voting population would ever allow that? If so, you might be a libertarian...
     
  14. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) I wasn’t talking about the driving habits of Americans, I am talking about the future need for automobiles in general.
    2) Your personal automobile needs or wants are irrelevant to the overall trend that is predicted to be seen
    3) You didn’t even address a portion of my post
     
  15. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing magical about what is "known" today. And I would say most everyone is capable of learning what they need to for a new job. Every generation thinks they are somehow of superior intelligence than the last. You my friend will find out on day your kids will think you are also old and out of day and unable to keep up with the wpnewest and greatest. There is no doubt you will be capable to learn it but will you. Will you move into a job were knowing everything about the latest technology is not very important any more? And at present we have millions of jobs being done by illegals in the country right know. How about not letting them do those jobs and making people actually work. No job is beneath anyone if that is what they need to do to feed themselves and their family.
     
  16. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sounds like a quote brought to us by someone who would rather sit on the couch all day and smoke dope.
     
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  17. ChristopherABrown

    ChristopherABrown Well-Known Member

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    Considering that the VAT is likely not economically sustainable with the increase in populations, the populations will have to change they way they commodify. Thusly, by default, it is transitional appearing.
     
  18. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    And do you understand that 80 percent of stock is owned by 5% of the population. And that the remaining 20% is divided up among the rest of us. It is the people that control corporations that need to be paying proportionately more. Corporations exist to create profit for its shareholders, that is all. Corporations have People and lawyers that are the face of that group of people, people personify corporations based on those outwardly facing people.

    to think that a person with the average 100K 401k is somehow negatively affected by taxing corporations is wrong if theat money is spent directly on programs such as healthcare that he benefits from. 80% of the profits that are being taxed are still paid by the top 5% so the average joe benefits more.
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And do you understand that more that half population owns stocks in corporations? And do you understand all those people who own those corporations pay income taxes and we already have one of the most progressive tax systems out there. And as you note a corporation is just a group of people gathered to gather for a central purpose and some corporations are non-profit corporations. The corporate taxes are bourn by all the shareholders and that affects your retirement savings that is if you have any.
     
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  20. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I do know that this is not money that is sitting in some closet doing nothing. The government will have to take from someone who worked for the money, to give to someone who did nothing for the money. You want money figure your life outandgo work for it.
     
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  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So by transitional you mean it will collapse as unsustainable.
     
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  22. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Well sooner than you think they re going to be a lot less jobs as more and more get automated. You are fine with 5% of the people living as if they are in a different planet, I do not want a return to medieval times when there were 1000 "royals" or now "industrialists" living off the efforts of 1million serfs. The only diff being one got power by military force and the other by economic force. We created a society that allowed these people to accumulate the wealth that they have and we fought wars to help them keep it also. 5% of the people should not control 95 percent of the wealth (not counting home ownership which is the majority of the wealth the middle class has) There is not reason for that. hell, I would be fine if they just were taxed so that they only owned 75% of what they own now. which is what they owned back in 1990.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They have been saying that for decades and were are HUGELY more automated that we were 20 years ago and we have a GLUT of open jobs, 7,000,000+ and wages especially in the bottom incomes are rising faster than we have seen in decades.

    As I noted one of the BIGGEST moves to automation in the history of the country was from manual to mechanical telephone exchanges

    upload_2020-1-16_15-33-11.png
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    And even the mechanical which are now obsolete as it is all electronic had huge numbers of workers

    Did we have to have some big government program some UBI during that transition?

    Robotics and automated systems is a BOOMING field and a GREAT field to be working in and in my state you can get trained and certified FOR FREE.
     

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  24. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    No they have not been saying that for decades. I am 66 years old and I have not heard of this as an issue until the last 4 years. We used to be an industrial society that made things, we are no longer that. right now the greatest employers are call centers and retail. We know what amazon is doing to retail and we know what computers are doing to call centers. Next up is interstate trucking and delivery which in 10-15 years will be drones and self driving vehicles. Now the 35% of our population that is educated by degree will be fine, 10 more who are techs such as carpenters, electricians, plumbers etc are going to be great shape too. But what about the other 50% of us. sure they are a lot of jobs in personal care that is going to be rising, but even here in Mass which is a well paying state those guys only make 14 and hour or so. Less than MCds in a lot of cases.

    And how is UBI a big government program. It is going to wipe out a lot of big government programs as welfare and food stamps roles are cut by half. That money is going to spent in our economy, nobody is going to be buying a Jackson Pollock, they are going to be buying houses and appliances and cars and going to movies and meals, a little more will be put aside for 401K and that will help. I think the economy will benefit more by having 1000 people with 10,000 dollars than 1 person with 50 mill a year income with an extra 10 mill in the bank or buying a 20 mill house and a couple of Lamborghinis and Pollocks.
     
  25. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I really have a hard time understanding how people think the government needs to involved in limiting how much of anything someone should own by taxing them.
     
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