Jesus Christ and The Noble Qu'ran

Mark 3:31-36
There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother."

John 13:34
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

Matthew 16:23
"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."


Some people have a difficult time 'loving' such a person as Jesus. They say that He is not 'loving'. To such persons, I recommend focusing on doing the good things of the world and staying away from the evil things of the world.. They will be counted among the righteous who rejoice when wickedness is taken away..

 

Jesus only had 1 lifetime to accomplish what He did. He couldn't walk the entire earth in 33 years or so.. And so The Gospel was spread throughout the whole world.. By His Apostles, God's Word about His Son, was taken into almost every nook and cranny of The Earth.. When He said, i only came for the lost sheep of Israel, He might have meant that his life on Earth, at that time, was only going to be in Israel. If you feel as if you are being 'judged' ask yourself on what aspect of your life you feel you are being judged.. Do you feel judged for sleeping too much? Do you feel judged for eating too much? Do you feel judged for walking too fast or slow?? What do you feel as if you are being 'judged' on then stop to think about if what you feel is in judgement is really a good thing to have in your life or if it is a bad thing...If i eat alot and I feel judged, maybe if I weigh the pro and cons of eating alot, then i might be able to agree or disagree, with knowledge. Not by feelings or emotions but by knowledge. Is my eating alot something I truly am knowledgeable that I am partaking in? At least this way you can reassure yourself and God that you are aware of what you are doing, know the pros and cons, have weighed the matter, compared it to what God might want, and feel confident that you are not doing anything amiss. But if it does go against any Holy Scripture, then to say that it is NOT detrimental is saying that you are smarter than Him who is trying to save your life, perhaps.. So basically, instead of resisting the 'judgement' try to see if the 'judgement' is actually going to 'better' you..

 

Maybe not but only Greeks read Greek.. Well maybe the learned ones in other Countries but they were of the 'well to do' families.. So Jesus spoke Aramaic.. which might have been the 'lower' status language in Israel during those days.. Which means He wasn't sitting as the Legislative Body in Israel but rather He was walking among the 'lower class' of Israel yet defending and sharing God to both classes. And with Righteous Judgement and Impartiality, He conducted Himself among All classes of people. He was not this way with this group and that way with that group. He was always the Same. Which made Him appear as if He was NOT part of any people within Israel.. And remember, He wasn't obscure with Himself. He walked, talked, ate, drank among them all. And the majority of His talking may have been about God.

 

Your Greek is Modern Greek.

 

true.. I guess. So is our English.

 

That's comforting to know, but in that case how would you interpret these Quran verses?-

[9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the infidels who are near to you and let them find in you hardness"

-9:119
O you who have believed, fear Allah and be with those who are true.

9:120
It was not [proper] for the people of Madinah and those surrounding them of the bedouins that they remain behind after [the departure of] the Messenger of Allah or that they prefer themselves over his self. That is because they are not afflicted by thirst or fatigue or hunger in the cause of Allah, nor do they tread on any ground that enrages the disbelievers, nor do they inflict upon an enemy any infliction but that is registered for them as a righteous deed. Indeed, Allah does not allow to be lost the reward of the doers of good.

9:121
Nor do they spend an expenditure, small or large, or cross a valley but that it is registered for them that Allah may reward them for the best of what they were doing.

9:122
And it is not for the believers to go forth [to battle] all at once. For there should separate from every division of them a group [remaining] to obtain understanding in the religion and warn their people when they return to them that they might be cautious.


9:123 O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.


9:124
And whenever a surah is revealed, there are among the hypocrites those who say, "Which of you has this increased faith?" As for those who believed, it has increased them in faith, while they are rejoicing.

9:125
But as for those in whose hearts is disease, it has [only] increased them in evil [in addition] to their evil. And they will have died while they are disbelievers.

9:126
Do they not see that they are tried every year once or twice but then they do not repent nor do they remember?

9:127
And whenever a surah is revealed, they look at each other, [saying], "Does anyone see you?" and then they dismiss themselves. Allah has dismissed their hearts because they are a people who do not understand.

9:128
There has certainly come to you a Messenger from among yourselves. Grievous to him is what you suffer; [he is] concerned over you and to the believers is kind and merciful.



[5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends.."

- 5:47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

5:48
And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

Matthew 15:8 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with theirlips; but their heart is far from me."

5:51 O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

Matthew 15:8 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with theirlips; but their heart is far from me."

5:53 And those who believe will say, "Are these the ones who swore by Allah their strongest oaths that indeed they were with you?" Their deeds have become worthless, and they have become losers.

Isaiah 29:13 "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:"

This verse says Jesus was not God's son-
[4.171] "the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary] is only an apostle of Allah..far be It from His glory that He should have a son.."

-The word for 'Far' is not included in the Arabic Text. Nor the word for 'From'.

3:45 [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].


3:53 Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger Jesus, so register us among the witnesses [to truth]."

4:150 Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between


4:151 Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

4:152 But they who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not discriminate between any of them - to those He is going to give their rewards. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.


And this verse says he wasn't crucified-
[4.157] "..they did not kill him nor did they crucify him.."

4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Matthew 27:1-2 "When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor." (Pontius Pilate was the Roman Governor)

 

What I'm saying is that your Greek language passages are merely a translation, like Spanish or French. They are not original.

 

Right, and that is the same with modern English. Today's Modern English passages are merely translations, like Spanish or French. They are not original.

 

That's comforting to know, but in that case how would you interpret these Quran verses?-

And this verse says he wasn't crucified-
[4.157] "..they did not kill him nor did they crucify him.."

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ ۚ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ ۚ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا - 4:157

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.


The verse does not say that He was NOT crucified but that 'they' did not crucify Him. Who is 'they' according to this verse?

"And [for] 'their' saying", ....

4:153
"The People of the Scripture..."

And in 4:157 .. Allah or His Angels has said, 'And they did not kill him, for certain.' So why say Allah or His Angels are liars?

It does not read, 'And they did not crucify him, for certain.'

Crucifixion was 1 way to put 'criminals' to the death penalty in those days. Crucifixion was a 'death penalty' death. Not a passerby death. It was carried out by the Court System they had in those days. Just like the Courts today. But Crucifixion was NOT of the Jews. It was of the Roman Judicial System.

 

The original Bible was written in Latin.The claim has been that the original Bible was written it Greek. It wasn't.

 

According to the Jewish Babylonian Talmud the Jews killed Yeshua using five different means of execution. How do the Arabs know differently? Did they have a news bureau in Jerusalem at the time monitoring all of the executions?

 

i see.. thanks for clarifying. I am not too sure of the original of too much.. I just go by what i am given. Sorry.

 

And in 4:157 .. Allah or His Angels has said, 'And they did not kill him, for certain.' So why say Allah or His Angels are liars?

It does not read, 'And they did not crucify him, for certain.'

Crucifixion was 1 way to put 'criminals' to the death penalty in those days. Crucifixion was a 'death penalty' death. Not a passerby death. It was carried out by the Court System they had in those days. Just like the Courts today. But Crucifixion was NOT of the Jews. It was of the Roman Judicial System.

So even according to the Jewish Babylonian Talmud, the Jews saying 4:157"Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.." would not be true but calling Allah or His Angels a liar. What does Allah or His Angels say? "And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain." For certain they did not kill Him, says Allah or His Angels. But saying NO, we did kill Jesus, is telling Allah or His Angels that they do not know what we know...

 

And for those who claim Muhammad greater than any other 'messenger', The Qur'an says:
[4:150] Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -

and


[4:151] Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

and

[4:152] But they who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not discriminate between any of them - to those He is going to give their rewards. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

and


[4:171] ... The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah,


So why discriminate between Messengers of Allah?

 

And:

[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].
He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous."
She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.
And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.
Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].
Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger Jesus, so register us among the witnesses [to truth]."
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.
[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.
And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."
But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and Allah does not like the wrongdoers.

3:45-55

-------------------------

4:150-151 "...to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -
Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

--------------------------------

And so I ask a question... How do Muslims tell between the true Messengers of Allah and false messengers? Or was Muhammad the very last Messenger? If Muhammad was the last Messenger of Allah, then Islam has no need for Leaders of Islam since all Muslims can keep and read The Noble Qur'an for themselves... Even the so called close relatives of Muhammad can't claim to be a Messenger of Allah. Noone can if Muhammad was the last Messenger of Islam..

Is there something in The Qur'an which tells how Allah wants His believers to Learn and Grow in Allah? What does Allah say as far as maintaining a good relationship with Him?

What do The Messengers of Allah say to do??
---------------------------------

1 Timothy 4:13 "Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine."

 

4:157-158 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

 

Totally irrelevant.

And quoting the Koran to someone who has read it and rejected it is not going to get you anywhere. Islam is a curse upon the world, and is the product of Satan as a means of luring people away from God..

 

delade, is there a point to your posts?

 

According to the bible, Jesus is a curse himself.

 

just trying to answer the person's question of how the Koran dispells Isa as taught by teachers of The Koran. I was trying to show how with only one line out of a whole series of sentences, the whole meaning of the Scripture can be twisted and mean nothing more than what those specific words say.. In the whole context, those specific words relay a whole different message.

 

delade,
Do you read Arabic?

 

no.. I do not know how to read 1 word of Arabic.. Why do you ask? I don't even know how to write their alphabet..

 

Are you deaf and blind?

On Muslim slavery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOSIhg86oc

Regards
DL[/QUOTE]
Callling every Muslim a slave holder is like calling every Jewish person a Pharisee or Sadducee.

 

61:6 Sahih International: And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

Satan did NOT create Islam... Jesus told of Islam coming through Ahmad. And Jesus said that Ahmad was going to be a messenger of Allah, also..

In fact, from the sounds of it, Jesus liked Ahmad.

 

I asked because you wrote in Post #142 = "4:157-158 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise."

Since Jesus didn't exist until about 1630 I was wondering how he got into the Koran. So if you could ead Arabic maybe you would have been able to explain it in an Arabic language Koran. But remember, if the Koran has numbered chapters and verses it's not original even if it's written in Arabic.