NAACP blasts Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey over Confederate monument ad

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by doombug, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You should probably go back to 6th grade and learn the difference between a constitutional amendment and a federal law. Lol

    Marriage falls under then14th amendment, and states can’t violate the US constitution. There is no such amendment making states enforce a federal law, such as illegal immigration, or federal drug laws.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  2. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    The US had, in 1793, established 3 miles offshore as its territorial waters. Harbors and inland waters were also within US jurisdiction.

    Secession was not addressed in the Constitution and was not ruled on until 1869, so there was no legal/illegal issue to consider. It had, up to that time, been considered a political issue. Since the States had entered into the union voluntarily, there was nothing binding to hold them. For example, the original 13 colonies were independent States within the United States under the Articles of Confederation. Once the Constitution was written, States had to ratify this new document to be part of this new Union. They were free and independent. They were not held under the AoC and were not held under the new Constitution. To illustrate this, though all 13 States did eventually ratify the Constitution, 2 didn't at first and George Washington was elected president without these 2 States (Rhode Island and North Carolina). New York also didn't participate because it didn't field a slate of electors.

    Back to the territorial waters aspect. With South Carolina seceding, it again became a nation unto itself, like all the States had until they voluntarily ratified the Constitution, and reclaimed jurisdiction of its territorial waters.
     
  3. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Except for the fact that Fort Sumter was collectively owned property. When South Carolina unilaterally withdrew from the union, they gave up any claim they had to collectively owned property of the union.
     
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes they did and Lincoln sent his army into Virginia to invade. Then he order a blockade of all Confederate ports. The Confederacy was defending itself from an invasion by hostile forces and blockade as the Union tried to destroy it's land and starve it's women and children.
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not once the Confederacy was no longer part of the United States and in violation of agreement Union Forces started arming and manning Fort Sumter within North Carolina and Confederate territory.
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    ROFL there are volumes written on the Northern invasion of the Confederacy starting with the first Battle of Bull Run.

    "All of the Union's states provided soldiers for the United States Army (also known as the Union Army), though the border areas also sent tens of thousands of soldiers south into the Confederacy. The Border states were essential as a supply base for the Union invasion of the Confederacy, and Lincoln realized he could not win the war without control of them, especially Maryland, which lay north of the national capital of Washington, D.C.. "
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_(American_Civil_War)
     
  7. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    South Carolina, in withdrawing from the union, reverted back to an independent state with sovereignty over its territorial waters. Fort Sumter resided in those territorial waters. It sent a commission to Washington to negotiate for payment for improvements to the site, but was rejected.
     
  8. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    When the Confederacy unilaterally left the union, it abrogated any claim it had to collectively owned union property.
     
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  9. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Yes, the US is under no obligation to sell its sovereign territory to other countries. And they have a right to use the territorial waters of other countries for peaceful purposes. The Confederacy had no more right to block the US from supporting its military based on its sovereign land in Charleston harbor than the government of Canada could prevent the US from using the Saint Lawrence seaway to support bases in New York or Michigan.
     
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  10. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    How does sending an invasion force, which is what the composition of the so-called "re-supply fleet" showed it to be, constitute peaceful purposes? It is, in fact, the opposite of peaceful purposes.

    Edit: the situation at Sumter did not come to a head, with deadlines given, until the Confederates got word of this "re-supply fleet".
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It claimed the land within it's borders with no longer included the United States with Union forces were arming and reinforcing against prior agreement.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    "When the north decided to end slavery the south took millions of Americans hostage. That's what those slaves were. Americans. The north invaded the south to rescue millions of captured Americans."

    That's an inaccurate statement. No black person in America was an American citizen until July 9, 1868, when the 14th Amendment granted all of them citizenship.
     
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The South seceded to expand slavery and to import more slaves into their areas. Slavery was still legal in the North until after the end of the Civil War.
     
  14. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    The South seceded because of, among other things, "agitation from the Republican party over slavery".

    As a practical matter, the South knew from the get-go that 7 States (which was the original Confederacy) had no chance of expanding slavery.
     
  15. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You don't think this is true? I'd look into why the NRA was originally created.
     
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  16. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the states that tried to secede lost.
     
  17. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Nobody was going to be invading Charleston from Fort Sumter.
     
  18. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    What agreement was that exactly? What treaty did the US sign with South Carolina that banned supply sovereign US territory?
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Blockade.
     
  20. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    What blockade? How many ships did Fort Sumter stop or fire on?
     
  21. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Bunch of ****ing traitors and cheapskates. Anyone that supports the "Confederacy" in any way shape or form is a traitor.
     
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  22. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Charleston harbor is within South Carolina's sovereign territory. Ownership of a fort within it does not confer sovereignty.
     
  23. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Territorial waters are subject to the laws of the sea which include that other nations may use them to access their territories beyond those waters. Canada cannot legally block the US from sending ships down the Saint Lawrence Seaway, either.
     
  24. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Waters landward of the baseline (coastline)are defined as internal waters, over which the state has complete sovereignty: not even innocent passage is allowed without explicit permission from said state. Lakes and rivers are considered internal waters.

    I would note that Charleston harbor is landward of the coastline.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The blockade they were moving cannon and arms to Ft. Sumter to enforce against prior agreement. I have no obligation to keep repeating myself.
     

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