Question for Holocaust Deniers

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Theories' started by Ronstar, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113

    here is an excellent post for explaining and understanding why some folks deny the Holocaust.

    I think the motivations here are pretty clear:

     
  2. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2,161
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Oh my Gawd! Thanks for sharing!
     
  3. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,168
    Likes Received:
    739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    But... Mrs. Ursula Haverbeck has stated that Auschwitz was not an extermination camp but a work camp. If not true, then why would she be willing to go to jail for that... she, a very intelligent old lady? Why would so many other studied, intelligent people insist on the truth and go to jail?
    I just listened again to her interview...

    https://archive.org/details/Ursula-Haverbeck-Interview
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    86,024
    Likes Received:
    24,939
    Trophy Points:
    113
    sadly cause if they could not work, they were no use to them - they saw them as sub-human and against their beliefs, they thought the ends justified the means

    this is the danger of turning a majority of society against a race or religion
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    86,024
    Likes Received:
    24,939
    Trophy Points:
    113
    oh I am sure there was something like that behind the anger of the people, but when they did what Hitler did, that was just plain evil

    when the people are starving and blame the Jews and believe the Jews killed their savior, bad things happen if the leader allows it and embellishes it

    Hitler was finally important, he was not giving that up and loved people worshiping him, so he stoked the flames of anger among his people

    basically it cost too much to feed or care for them in the concentration camps, so they started killing them
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    I'm not the one who claims that Hitler ordered the execution of all Jews. That's the claim of the Holocaust Industry & those gullible enough to believe such a fraudulent entity. (*)

    Firstly, I'm not arguing that there was no holocaust.

    Secondly, a mass execution decree would not have been worded so simply as you suggest.

    Thirdly, Stalin used to stay up until late in the night signing execution decrees while Hitler's name appears on none.

    Finally, if the Nazis were intent on exterminating all Jews, why were Jews among the Nazi Party members, why did they comprise approximately 150,000 members of Hitler's armed forces and how did they receive Germany's highest military honors and rise to the highest ranks of Admirals and Generals with the full knowledge of Hitler & Germany's High Command.

    For extra points, If Hitler hated all Jews with such a white hot hatred, why did he maintain a platonic friendship with a young Jewish girl (Rosa Bernile Nienau) (1) and why did he chose to honor WW 1 Jewish veterans who were already in Palestine.(2)




    (*) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "Writing to the Claims Conference’s board last week, recently terminated ombudsman Shmuel Hollander asserted that, while reports had said organizational insiders had siphoned off $57 million in German taxpayer funds meant for survivors, “the final sum is in all probability much higher.”CONTINUED




    (1) "Remarkable tale of Hitler's young Jewish friend"
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46192941
    EXCERPT "Hitler would go on to build a friendship with Rosa Bernile Nienau, which only ended when top Nazi officials intervened five years later.
    It was a shared birthday which brought a little girl and the Nazi leader together.

    According to the auction website, Rosa and her mother had joined the crowds outside Hitler's Alpine retreat Berghof in 1933 on his birthday.

    It is thought that when he discovered Rosa had the same birthday, he invited Rosa and her mother Karoline up to the house - where these photographs were taken.
    "CONTINUED


    (2) "When Hitler Honored Jewish Soldiers"

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.602868

    EXCERPT "The Nazi regime conferred honors on many of the 100,000 Jews who fought in the German army in the Great War, even on some who had already escaped to Palestine."CONTINUED
     
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    89,511
    Likes Received:
    21,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Germans here denied it ever happened. Doesn’t mean anything considering eye witness accounts.
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    for the 17th time, Mischlinge were NOT Jews
     
  10. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And in the case of first degree Mischlinge, they were schedule to be next in the death camp after the jews were done with. The second degree mischlinge were to be ultimately rendered infertile if they could pass as germans or killed if not.
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1st Degree Mischlinge were treated as Jews in Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia. That is to say, murdered without question.
     
  12. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, but I was talking about the german mischelinge.
     
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If anyone wants to know what motivates many Holocaust Deniers, here's something posted by a PF member:

    "The next year, in 1920 Jewish international bankers(many of them the same involved in creating the League of Nations and the Federal Reserve) began giving big interest-bearing loans to Germany. By 1923 Germany was already going bankrupt to the Jewish financiers and couldn't continue paying the 270 billion Reichmark war reparations. Unable to even buy back their own coal from the "allies," factories began closing and thousands of Germans became unemployed. In 1924 as revenge for Germany stopping payment to the Jewish international banksters, they devalued the Papermark so sharply that within months millions of German families couldn't afford food or rent. It took a wheelbarrow full of Papermarks to buy a loaf of bread; thousands of Germans died of starvation.

    Stalin and the Jewish Bolsheviks were building concentration camps during this time, using Poland and other neighboring countries as a satellite to attack and takeover German soil. This was the pretext for Hitler's rise to power. From 1933-1940 Hitler tried repeatedly to make peace with the Jews and "allied" forces even calling for complete disarmament on everyone's part. He was nominated for the Nobel peace prize in 1939, the very year he was attacked on his own soil after repeatedly pleading for peaceful solutions. In 1936 99% of German registered voters went out to vote and 98.8% voted for Hitler.

    The Jewish media has ever since painted an evil picture of Hitler and the Jew World Order has even enacted laws in 18 European countries prohibiting free-speech on the issues of Judaism and the Holocaust. Please read Why the Holocaust Denial? and watch the following videos to see how you have been lied to about one of the most significant men in modern history."
     
  14. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,168
    Likes Received:
    739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    O.k., you go ahead and believe the eyewitness accounts. But why not also believe the German soldier who stumbled into Auschwitz and saw no evidence of gas chambers. Because he is German, he must be lying, of course!

    Haverbeck's logical arguments are quite convincing. For instance, why were SS Guards forbidden to touch prisoners? Why would they court-martial SS guards who violated the rules and beat a prisoner? Why did the authorities enforce the rules to the point of shooting SS guards found guilty of harming a prisoner?
    Why was the camp kitchen ordered to cook a thick, healthy soup for the prisoners and not cook it too long as to not destroy all the vitamins? Why were the inmates sent out to gather fresh herbs to add to their meals? Why were the prisoners' feet and shoes inspected 3 x a week? Why was their hair cut short? Why did the camp commanders allow the prisoners a 2-hour lunch break?
    Why did the camps sport libraries, theaters, orchestras, swimming pools, soccer fields and brothels? Why did they have a hospital and maternity wards? Why bring in skilled surgeons to deal with difficult cases? Why was the Red Cross allowed to inspect and have free talk with the prisoners without supervision? Why were there religious facilities for every faith?

    Why were the prisoners paid and a portion set aside for their pension? Why did the camps have a Post Office and a variety store? Why bother with dental facilities for the inmates? Why have a sauna for the inmates?

    Yes, despite all the precautions to keep the camp inmates healthy, in the end the war got more and more destructive. Due to the daily and nightly bombing raids by the allies normal life across Germany became impossible. The Germans suffered along with the prisoners... neither had enough to eat.
    Starting in late 1944 the refugees from the East were added to the chaos of the bombed out cities... there were shortages of everything everywhere. Typhus, a deadly disease, spread across crowded facilities, including the labor camps.

    WHY on Earth did most of them in the end choose to walk westward with their torturers and murderers while Liberation by the Russians was so close?
    Now, years later, the Jews complain about the "Death Marches", as if the Germans did that to torture them. Why didn't they gas them if they had the means? No, walk to safety! Get away from the evil Russians!

    The Germans upheld their strict rules and regulations to the very end! That is also why they handed over some labor camps to the Americans like dutiful obedient soldiers, completely unaware of any guilt on their part, only to be shot in the back by the liberating force!!
     
    Grau likes this.
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    89,511
    Likes Received:
    21,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean where they beat them and shot many along the way? Who again had the guns? You think prisoners have a choice?

    Handed over, you mean like trying to escape like Rudolf Hoess did?
     
  16. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Auschwitz, Treblinka, Dachau, Sobibor and all the other death camps had libraries and movie theaters for the Jews to enjoy??

    Lololol!!! Too funny.
     
    Badaboom likes this.
  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Before you dismiss the fact that there were libraries, orchestras, movies etc at Auschwitz etc you need only remember that not all survivor stories report beatings, starvation & "gas chambers etc, keep an open mind and please take a brief look at:

    "HOLOCAUST DEPROGRAMMING COURSE"
    https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/


    For an example of a different sort of survivor story, please take a look at Alexander McClelland's letter in its entirety :

    ALEXANDER McCLELLAND.........LETTER
    http://www.scrapbookpages.com/CzechRepublic/Theresienstadt/SmallFortress/TheresienstadtKapos.html

    EXCERPTS "
    It is a mistake to
    believe that the Germans had enough spare manpower to staff and run the
    concentration camps. The Germans only guarded the outer perimeter of the
    camps, we Prisoners hardly saw German soldiers, so it was not the SS or
    German guards that beat me up daily.

    No, the daily beatings that left me totally incapacitated, came from two
    fellow Prisoners called KAPOS.

    The two Kapos that beat me daily, using a heavy wooden baton they called
    'Herr Doktor' (The Doctor) were both fellow Prisoners, both were Jewish,
    one from Hungary and the other was, I believe, a Ukrainian. I was often a
    witness when they dragged other hapless prisoners from their cells onto
    the 'Appelplatz' and beat them to death with 'The Doctor'.

    As a matter of fact, it was a German SS Soldier who saved my life after
    the Kapos, who after beating me sent me outside the camp on a work
    detail, with a dangerously poisoned leg. The SS Soldier walking by saw my
    mates helping me, came over and then gave me his medical kit." CONTINUED

    I don't expect you to change your mind over 2 simple sources but I hope you'll better understand why most of the world does not believe(1) the standard holocaust narrative.


    ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources.

    Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED
     
    Jazz likes this.
  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Re:
    Yes, according to Elie Wiesel & other inmates, they had a choice of going Westward with the Germans or being left behind to be raped by sadistic Russian rapists.

    I knew a Russian holocaust survivor who had been a captive of all the major armies throughout war ravaged Europe. She reported that she was treated better by the Germans than any of her captors, Allied or Axis.


    "Rape Of Germany After It Lost In 1945"
    https://historyimages.blogspot.com/2012/01/1945-after-it-lost-germany-raped.html

    EXCERPT "In a report that appeared in August 1945 in the Washington DC Times-Herald, an American journalist wrote of what he described as“the state of terror in which women in Russian-occupied eastern Germany were living. All these women, Germans, Polish, Jewish and even Russian girls `freed’ from Nazi slave camps, were dominated by one desperate desire -- to escape from the Red zone “

    “In the district around our internment camp … Red soldiers during the first weeks of their occupation raped every women and girl between the ages of 12 and 60. That sounds exaggerated, but it is the simple truth."CONTINUED
     
    Jazz likes this.
  19. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Re:

    Firstly, no one here has denied the holocaust.

    To my knowledge, everyone who has posted a comment acknowledges that many Bolsheviks, Jews, the Roma etc were incarcerated in camps throughout Germany & Poland.

    Secondly, how is "denying the holocaust" more vile than rejecting any other historical event?

    Finally, you should be aware that the vast majority of people in the world do not believe the inflated numbers & grotesque fictions fabricated by what Norman Finkelstein calls "The Holocaust Industry".


    ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources.

    Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED
     
  20. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,168
    Likes Received:
    739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I asked the Internet, "when is a holocaust a holocaust?"
    No answer, just all about the Jewish Holocaust of six million killed.
    How many people have to be killed deliberately and systematically in order to call that event a "Holocaust"?
    Why does one never hear about the "German Holocaust", the US-ordered starvation of up to 3 million German civilians and POWs AFTER WWII had ended?
    The Germans were defeated and had no voice, they paid and paid and are still paying to Israel, the fourth mightiest nuclear power on earth.
     
  21. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,921
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because it didn't happen. A nasty little fairy tale made up and promoted by Nazi apologists & pathological conspiracy nuts. Several tens of thousands of people, mostly POWs, died as a result of inadequate food and/or other supplies, not millions. This is undoubtedly a stain on Allied cause, but it pales next to the millions of Russian POWs who died in German hands, the hundreds of thousands of workers used as forced labour and the millions of Jews killed.


    Not even close. Israel is number 8 out of 9. 'Mighty' India has 50% more warheads, 'mighty' Pakistan almost double, the UK, France & China have multiples. 'Mighty' North Korea could easily pass Israel in a very short space of time.

    So, a post almost entirely made up of stuff that is.....made up. Now, tell us again about the Jewish bankers, how you think Hitler was a nice man & that only a few hundred thousand Jews died in the holocaust.
     
    Badaboom likes this.
  22. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,990
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you're essentially asking 2 questions.

    1. Why is MSM saturated with grotesque and fantastic disinformation focusing on only Jewish suffering during WW 2?

    2. Why is there so little emphasis on the horrific plight of innocent Germans(1) after WW 2 when the mass murders, mass rape, torture, slave labor etc was just beginning?

    The answer to your second question is as simple as the fact that over 70 years later, we're still confronted by the same Allied propaganda narrative that remains prolific today as it was during WW 2.
    Additionally, we're all equally familiar with the maxim: "The victors write the history" but few take that reality into account when reading about WW 2.

    The answer to your first question can best be addressed by acknowledging the fact that a disproportionate number of major MSM owners are Jewish individuals and apparently unwilling to question the factually flawed standard holocaust narrative that is the stock in trade of the influential multi $Billion Holocaust Industry.

    In addition to successfully saturating MSM with the fictional standard holocaust narrative & extracting $100 Billion from Germany, the Holocaust Industry is equally successful in extracting tax dollars for their grisly theme parks around the country from US coffers(2).

    While many in the West have willingly been deceived by fictitious & inflated holocaust lore, it is important to remember that far more people around the world reject the gruesome myths promulgated by the wealthy & influential Holocaust Industry(3)



    (1) "Expulsion of Ethnic Germans after World War II (1945)"
    https://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-horrific-genocides-in-history.php

    EXCERPT "However, the forced displacement of some 14 million ethnic Germans and allied Slavs from Soviet Russia, from occupied areas of Eastern and Central Europe in the aftermath of World War II, has to go down as something pretty close to genocide, especially when one considers that between half a million and two million of them didn’t survive the journey.

    While most of these deaths were from famine and disease, many German civilians were also executed outright, or sent to internment and labor camps by the Soviets— "CONTINUED


    (2) "Holocaust Memorial Museum Continues to Rake in Americans’ Tax Dollars"
    https://www.wrmea.org/2018-november...ntinues-to-rake-in-americans-tax-dollars.html

    EXCERPT "In the last decade alone, Congress has allocated more than half a billion dollars to the institution, whose director, Sara J. Bloomfield, received a salary of $520,896 in 2016 (the president of the United States earns $400,000 a year)."CONTINUED



    (3) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/
     
    Jazz likes this.
  23. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,168
    Likes Received:
    739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Sorry, I am sometimes a little overwhelmed, as I also read a lot. It is almost like an obsession to find out as much as I can to finally get the real truth about the Germans and their enemies.
    Just now I finished reading this...

    https://rense.com/general39/allied.htm

    I had to take a break and look out into the garden... a Robin took a bath in the birdbath. He enjoyed it so much, he dived in several times.
    Yes, and they have helpers, too! There are enough Germans who side with our old enemies, either by brainwashing, gaining a favor from the enemy or feeling superior over their ancestors.

    It was my lucky day yesterday to stumble upon an article, actually a book, that describes a.o. how and why the Russian army was so brutal to the German soldiers.

    In German:
    http://www.vho.org/D/vadw/index.html
    In English:
    http://www.cwporter.com/seidl1.htm

    CRIMES AGAINST THE WEHRMACHT

    Excerpt:
    Kill the German wherever you find him. Beat him on the street, in the house, blow him up with grenades, stick bayonets in him, pitch forks, cut in half with axes, impale him, cut him up with knives, hit, however you can, but kill! Kill him, and you rescue your life and that of your family. Kill him and you rescue your homeland, your people. Everywhere you must kill the beast! When he stops to sleep – tear to pieces the sleeping one. If he goes into the forest – there he will find death. If he is on the road, a mine should tear him to pieces. If he travels by train – let the train be derailed. Crush, split, stab him in the forest, on the field, on the street, destroy him everywhere!”
    - Ilya Ehrenburg

    Another excerpt:
    On 3 July 1941, Stalin, in his well-known radio speech “Comrades! Citizens! Brothers and Sisters! Fighters of our Army and Navy!”, which was broadcast everywhere over and over again in the following days, ordered the population to deprive the German invader of everything that might be of use: “Not single locomotive, not one single railroad car, not one kilogram of grain, not one liter of fuel must be left behind for the German enemy”. Anything that could not be taken away was to be destroyed: “In enemy-occupied areas, partisan divisional units, on both foot and horseback, must be created to fight the units of the enemy army, to set partisan warfare ablaze everywhere, to blow up bridges and streets, to destroy telephone and telegraph connections, to burn down forests, warehouses and wreck trains. Intolerable conditions must be created in the occupied territories; the enemy is to be pursued and destroyed at all time, and all enemy measures must be thwarted.”

    The partisans were very much feared by the German soldiers, because they could be anywhere among the population or hiding in forests. They were savages, mutilating their victims in most brutal ways. Those were the things my brother could not talk about. Now, in my old age, I can read about it.

    I know a lady in her mid nineties, originally from one of the Baltic states, she keeps talking about the Reds... the Reds are coming... the Reds are everywhere. She means the Commies of WWII who invaded her country. She ended up in a displaced persons camp in Germany and from there came to Canada. At her age now she confuses memory with reality. She believes they are still after her.

    Going to check on my flowers after a good rain shower.




     
    Grau likes this.
  24. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,168
    Likes Received:
    739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  25. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    83,598
    Likes Received:
    9,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    do you deny that millions of Jews were murdered by the Nazis and their Fascist allies?
     

Share This Page