Something For Atheists to Consider

The only reason you are calling it "creation" is so that you CAN posit a creator.

How do you KNOW it is a creation?

It may not be.

This thing we call "existence" MAY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN...without a beginning...without any creation event.

Your assertion that you "cannot imagine creation without a creation" is as gratuitous and self-serving as an atheist saying, "I cannot imagine a thing without a beginning having need for a god."

Circular reasoning; begging the question.

 

There is absolutely no way you can substantiate the necessity of a god using logic, reason or science.

I defy you to do it.

No one ever has substantiated the necessity of a god using logic, reason, or science. People like Augustine and Aquinas have tried, but even amateur philosophers can demolish their supposed "logic."

 

You will have to ask all the non believers who have all
bitterly denounced the idea of a transcendent life that I've come across. The atheists who are now coming forward claiming they see no reason why a soul cannot survive the death of it's body are a real eye opener to me. I've never experienced that before.

I don't know roll.
Why should the idea of God make you hostile to the notion to the extent that you have to denigrate and belittle the very idea? I feel no need to ridicule your beliefs but you obviously cannot say the same. That's unfortunate.

First of all, it is you who seem antithetical to the beliefs of others.
And secondly, I didn't drag people into this thread and make them espouse their ideas and beliefs. You came here yourself of your own free will.
The idea that I can't "leave you alone" is absurd. Please feel free to leave if you are feeling persecuted and I promise not to miss any snarky, error filled
posts as a result.

 

So the OP wasn't yours?????

"""""A soul that transcends the temporal body...a contention of all religions since the dawn of time and believed by philosophers and brilliant minds throughout history.
Now credible scientists using quantum physics endorse the idea. Will this make some atheists angry and livid?

Of course it will. The very idea will threaten them and the notion there is more to life than just a binary alive or dead choice will cause
them to reconsider everything....actually most will not consider anything that doesn't conform to what they already believe
and the idea they may not know everything will not settle well at all if past experience is any indicator. """



Of course you wouldn't see it as a nasty attack because YOU did it.....

 

Of course. I've never said otherwise.

As this thread demonstrates I don't think the search for knowledge is "immaterial" at all. At least it's not to many and we should illuminate
our lives and existence scientifically wherever we can.

What?
Not sure where my "pissy attitude" comes into play since you failed to demonstrate it and as such, it may be you with the attitude problem, not me.

But that's not my problem. It's yours.

 

Why is it that ONLY Christians and Muslims (Mostly Christians) have a serious problem with Atheists...why do you even care?

Atheists and Agnostics usually only speak up when they say their beliefs are truth and anyone else is wrong. In truth none of us actually care about your personal beliefs and just want you guys to shut up and go pray alone somewhere.

 

Possibly not, but I don't see how. Science knows of nothing in the universe that doesn't have a cause. To assume that all of the universe just happens to be here for no reason at all is like thinking that a pocket watch on the surface of Mars is just some odd coincidence.

Perhaps but the Big Bang singularity would suggest otherwise.

Sorry but I indeed cannot imagine something that exists just because it exists. Maybe you can.
Why not give us all an example of such a thing.

Sorry again but I really don't want to waste my time and energy (two things that came out of the Big Bang singularity) trying to convince you of something you will resist with all your might. It's unproductive.
I've stated my reason for my belief and used science as a buttress for it. That's all I can do.

 

See my previous post. If you presume everything has a cause, because everything does have a cause, then to believe that
the universe itself has no cause is absurd and unsupportable. The only possible source of that cause is a creator and if you know of another please let me know.

I'm not aware of what you insist is true.

 

If you presume everything has a cause, then what caused the creator? To believe that the creator itself has no cause is absurd and unsupportable. See how logic works?

 

The OP, as I stated, comes directly out of my personal experience with actual atheists here on these boards and the hostility I faced from them when expressing a belief in an afterlife.
If this doesn't sound like you then you have no business being hostile and insulted, unless you just like how it feels.

 

There's nothing wrong with the search for data....in fact, that IS the agnostic/atheist position.

And your very first post was pissy....you were trying to smugly trying to suggest that you were right and that atheists would be upset about your amazing knowledge...which is complete crap.

The fact of the matter is that right now...no living human being has any idea what happens after death. You, nor anyone else, has any special knowledge of this and to assert otherwise is purely dishonest.

You can hope, you can wish, you can believe...but you don't know. And you don't have any higher level of knowledge that allows you to be smug over anyone with differing beliefs to yours. Clearly you have a beef with atheists and want to stereotype them...but its simply dishonest and annoying.

You have the right to whatever spiritual beliefs you want to have...and you should respect the rights of others to have the same.

 

Then why don't you keep your private beliefs to yourself.

This is the one issue I have with religious types...they feel the need to spew their version of spirituality upon everyone and then claim that their beliefs are superior. Its so tasteless and annoying.

Private things should be kept private. I certainly don't give a flying crap what you believe in...I just wish you'd keep it to yourself.

 

Science knows of nothing in the universe that doesn't have a cause, but cannot say the same about the universe itself. It appears that time is an integral part of the universe, so even if the universe has a beginning, there was never a time when the universe did not exist, so there is no need for a creator.

 

Yes. I have seen this argument ever since the sixth grade (if God made everything who made God?).
There are two fallacies at work there: One, everything doesn't have a cause as a reason for being?
That will come as a shock to the scientific world (speaking of things that are absurd and unsupportable).

And two, we cannot apply this rule that applies to the natural universe to a supreme being as God exists, by definition, outside of our notions of time and existence itself. That answer is unknowable as far as anyone can see.

 

So good believers strike out when their feelings are hurt. Guess they really don't believe in what Jesus had to say ????


You should have, to be honest, addressed THOSE atheists....see, unlike believers not all atheists think alike.

 

The current state of the universe began with the big bang event but the matter/energy of the universe existed in the singularity that became the big bang.

Unless you can somehow prove that there was no matter/energy prior to the big bang and that it was magically "created" out of "nothing" there is no need for a "creator".

Matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed ergo it has always existed and will always exist thereby eliminating any need for an imaginary "creator".

This is basic science 101 and logic 101.

 

Which is why I have NOT asserted I have some special insight into death.
Why not take some of that angry energy and prove me wrong? Is it possibly because you can't?

I mistakenly thought people would be gratified to see science may be unraveling some of the mystery around death. It looks like I was wrong.

Even after reading my OP about experiences with some atheists you want to attack me over this?
You seem to have both an anger and a comprehension problem and I'm doing you a favor by pointing it out. You're welcome.
I can't be civil in the face of such unwarranted hostility.

You completely ignore the posts that don't fit your ready to be insulted template. That's not my problem.

 

The mythical "afterlife" portrayed by theists would be nothing remotely akin to an "afterlife" in a quantum multidimensional continuum.

 

I'm not here as Jesus' lawyer so your presumptions are needlessly foolish.

Go back and look at the OP and see if I didn't specifically address SOME atheists as opposed to ALL atheists.
You only make yourself seem foolish and presumptive when you launch a broad brushed smear like this.

 

This is called special pleading.

 

Since no one knows for sure your theories are just that. I am happy just to see life as a continuum of existence and I imagine I will adjust to such a natural transition (when and if it comes) just as I have adjusted to life on this physical plane of existence.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, good. You've given it a name.

 

As YOU did .


Now Jesus needs a lawyer to speak his words?

 

Did you even read/comprehend what was in your own OP link?

 

I don't think you quite understand. You were making a special pleading argument. Saying everything has to have a cause or beginning EXCEPT for your god, because your god is so awesome, is special pleading.

 

The fact that you believe that the notion of a soul contradicts atheist belief only shows you actually have no idea about the full range of atheistic philosophies.

For one thing, define soul. Any good scientist knows that our consciousness runs on energy, obviously, and that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. The energy stores our mental consciousness will live on forever. It's really not even all that new a concept. I've read about such ideas as long ago as 20 years.