Teacher beheaded in Paris suburb after showing cartoons of Prophet Mohammed to class

This is what happens when you elect a lefty! There are gonna be lots of be-headings when we have unlimited illegal immigration under biden and they are running wild. THAT BLOOD WILL BE ON YOUR HANDS DEMOCRATS!

 

Macron is quite center for french political life even if as a country we tend to side much more with the left. Even Sarkzoy that pretended to fight against illegal immigration didn't do anything in the end.

However Macron had some shocking statements such as "french culture doesn't exist".

 

I am aware that in this case he is a chechen though that is in the main irrelevent to what I was saying. My argument was that the west in general has been responsible for the deaths of millions of Mulsims and making millions more homeless. Given that Western countries call themselves democracies the citizens of such countries to some degree have a responsibility for not stopping their Governments killing willy nilly. What we have done and supported in that part of the world is criminal....and yet, you act as if the West has no blame in this which is simply not true. Millions dead. Millions homeless.

I am saying clear up your own house before you complain about others.

I don't believe that Charlie Hebdo is being attacked for free speech. I believe they have been deliberately setting up people to be harmed by using the most malicious Islamophobia. I think in the UK it would be called a hate crime - that is incitement to hate. That is what I think the cartoons were and are.

I think I have remembered why people were talking about them asking for trouble before the main attack. I think it was because they were re-releasing the Cartoons again - cartoons which had caused hell throughout much of the world similar to cartoons of Christianity they had refused to accept because they knew that would cause deep offence and repercussions. The people who thought they were asking for trouble were talking about them adding flames to the fire by releasing them again (I think when they moved)

As Goomba said if you know something brings a certain result why keep repeating it? I believe that Charlie Hebdo keeps repeating it for one reason only - in the hope that there will be some killing of non Muslims to help them in their desire to get France and the West hating Muslims. I believe the cat is let out of the bag in this sentence

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rlie-hebdo-teacher-death-latest-b1098109.html

Only the staunchest Islamophobes talk like that. In the UK what I see Charlie Hebdo doing would be a crime called 'inciting to violence'....

No Western Country believes in allowing people to chop people's heads off for any reason. That is why we have laws and police and courts so you would in general have no one complaining about what you said. It is if you then transfer that to all or most Muslims in your country that you are acting in a harmful way towards them - something which itself may have similar consequenses to the inciting to hate and inciting to violence Charlie Hebdo does.

 

@alexa I never pretended that what the western government did his right, and about house, it's in our house that teacher get beheaded.

For decades, Charlie Hebdo constantly mocked the catholic faith, yet they got no terrorist attacks from those catholics. Charlie Hebdo mockd the jews, the christian, the police. They got called anti semitic, anti christian, they just mocked Islam as the other religions, but one hasn't reactee like the other.

Muslims in muslim majority country sentence to death blasphemers and apostates. They don't do that because they're children like individuals that act only in a way because the mean adult westerner act in a way. They act that way because Islam prescribe to kill apostates and blasphemers through the hadith and the sunna.

Yeah "french people bad". A certain community has on our ground murder hundred of people of our "community". You don't understand thatonly five percent of the events that happened. The member of a certain "peacefull" community has beaten to death a bus driver because he asked those apostles of peace to put mask because of the covid, you didn't hear of Victorine that was dragged to death from a car by some peacefull members of a certain community on hundred of meters.

The french have been islamophobic. Why ? We asked them to keep their religion outside of schools. We put boundaries.

How the french answered to the terrorist attacks of the 13th november ? "No amalgams". French people voted massively against Marine le Pen because she was called islamophobic.

In Myanmar, after an attack that killed a similar numbee of people that the terrorist attack the 13th november, the tragic persecutions we know started.

My ethnic group, the "gauls" have lost many of its children because of the same ethnic group. We have lamented our death, called to "no amalgam", and not seeked vengeance. And we're the bad guys ? The intolerant one ? Because we asked for no hijab in school ?

I don't think muslim and progressive understand the volcano they're sit on when they're spitting on my people for being "biggots". I don't think they understood how patient we have been toward a governement that brought nack jihadis instead letting them die in Syria. We lamented our death without seeking revenge, for now.

In any other place, the action of muslims in France would have started civil war. My people get insulted when it should be praised for his pacifism, or mocked for his weakness.

 

My point was that both are worth looking at. When your country goes and teaches ISIS and others and gets up to other things which result in a lot of death and beheadings...that is the time to stop it. Not when you start getting reactions back home. A Muslim and his friend, actually both were Christians who had converted to the extremist form of Islam, tried to cut off the head of a British soldier taking care that it was in a place where as many people as possible could see it. The taking of the soldier's life rather than a civilian was deliberate. To him a soldier was fare game. He said he was doing this because this was the sort of thing which was going on in his country (which I can't remember) every day, which he had to watch and he felt we just for one day should too. Lets leave the soldier out of it. In any case he was not an Islamaphobe and his parents were outspoken about the Islamophobia which followed saying he would not want it....but while it in no way agrees with what he did, and he was suffering mental illness, was moved to a mental prison, but what he said and by that the reasoning behind it is understandable. We have been a party to millions of men women and children being killerd, we have destroyed States, we have caused life changing injuries to millions, caused children to lose their parents and of course homelessness but it does not affect us. You seem to believe because it is not done in 'your house' it has nothing to do with you. It does because you are French. I can understand the guy who has been pushed beyond the limit into madness wanting to know how what he had to witness daily felt to us. I do not support it in any way but I can understand that. We seem to believe that we are so powerful we can do all kinds of inhumanity to others without a care....but if one of those so attacked tries their hand with us, they are the devil themselves.

Unfortunately there are so many articles on the list I have been unable to find it. Nonetheless the British Times did report that they were offered Christian ones of the same low grade as the Muslim ones and that Charlie Hebdo did not accept them believing they would cause great offence.

Well it would be strange if they were not called antisemetic if they printed ones of Jews. Can you please put in some of those for us to see. CH are though as far as free speech is concerned very wary of anything which could be considered antisemetic which includes criticism of Israel - that sort of thing will lose a person their job so lets not be too quick to pretend that one coulod act anywhere near how Charlie Hebro did to Jews and get away with it.

https://theintercept.com/2015/01/09/solidarity-charlie-hebdo-cartoons/

From the same link about your belief that people have been able to degrade Christians and Jews and get away with it .............

It just is nonsense to suggest people can get away with degrading Christians and Jews. It is also far far far from the truth that this is about Free Speech. It is about projecting a degrading image of Muslims and if they take the bait and kill someone then job done. It might be worth thinking who is really responsible for these murders. If I set something up which I know has a high chance of resulting in someone being murdered, am I not the murderer? The real reason is to get people to accept the inhumanity the West has shown towards the Middle East by painting Muslims as inhuman or subhuman. It is the same game always played.

and yet Muhhamed was very definate that religion was about conscience and people had the right to go by that. You are speaking about Saudi Arabia and her offspring who have been encouraged to spread their Gospel as far as possible because they are the bosom pal of the United States. There was a British Muslim who claimed that British Gays, you got the death penalty for beling gay in the UK at the time, with gays from other countries would go to the ME for refuge. He said that Islam even had handsome waiters to see gays off to the next life. Wahhabi is a new thing which the British and American's loved and helped to spread around the world. We used to have a poster here from Egypt. He said they found Wahhabi religion laugable. But now the Sauds and the American Christian right have got together and both of them infect those in very poor countries with their sadistic religion. Wahhabism is a warped form of Islam. It most certainly is not the only form of Islam. Have you never heard our Iranian Monitor speaking of it?

WTF are you on about. You believe All Muslims are children? That would suggest you believe non Muslims have some basic inbuilt superiority over Muslims.

only in warped translations which Islamophobes love to quote or possibly the Wahhabi which is only 2 or 3 hundred years old and was limited to a very small sect before the Brits let the Sauds take over the land now called Saudi Arabia and the American's embraced them for oil and spread their version far and wide. You do realise that plenty of people in SA are suffering from this like women looking at being beheaded because they want rights. That is by in no way Traditional Islam. It is the Islam the West has embraced and encouraged.

and France has been involved in killing millions of theirs as has the UK, US and others.

My problem with you is that you take what one Muslim does and then you build up a gross story of where they are all at it. Do you have any idea of how many people have been injured and some killed I think by the Wests white far right over asking them to wear a mask. You only choose to have a go at the Muslim. That is how prejudice works.

Do you have a problem with any of these cartoons.






https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2015/01/isil.gif

This is what the situation really is.



Plenty more where they came from

https://theintercept.com/2015/01/09/solidarity-charlie-hebdo-cartoons/

Charlie Hebdo is not about Free Speech it is about spreading hatred of Muslims while our countries are destroying theirs.

I really do not know what you are talking about.

The fact that you see things as 'your ethnic group' against the other illustrates to me that you have been drawn into the us and them of which fascism is born. I do not believe more people of your ethnic group have been killed than France has been involved in killing Muslims but I get that you are seeing things in cultural/racist terms.

You are giving the impression you want violence and that any Muslims living in France should be very pleased they have not received that .....yet.

Oh you believe France is the only place which has had any problem with terrorism as a result of their part in the killing of millions of Muslims. Most Muslims in the West just want to get on with their life but the way you are talking it clearly is very dangerous for people of that ethnic group, Muslims, in France.

 

Well, isn’t that just life? Cultures and ideas eventually clash, they have to if any any sort of understanding is to be agreed upon.

 

Most likely fake news. I linked in that thread a caricature of Jesus sodomizing god the father and being sodomized by the holy spirit. Quite offending for the christian, did they beheaded some Charlie Hebdo members ? No

Yet it is. Especially with christians. A "humorist" sang "Jesus is a F****" on a radio without any consequences. In fact yes, he applogized to the gay community.
Jewish community is more protected yes.

It would be true if CH didn't mocked christianity, what they did for decades since their foundation. Furthermore, the west motivate war not by demonizing muslims that much but for "humanitarian" reasons for "democracy". Obviously it's a disguise for economic reasons.

France have for a long time an "anti clericale" tradition : people mocking the church and christianity. Charlie Hebdo represented that tradition and not the far right team you claimed, they were a symbole of the far left. The anti church left wanted the end of the church, they got the consequence of that : radical islam.

Considering all the claims about Islam, I don't care about the theory of Islam. The only countries that sentence by death apostasy and blasphemy are muslims and it says enough. And I don't even mention all the restriction about freedom of cult or other persecutions on atheist such separation from children.

I'm mocking the fact that progressive excuse all act of radical muslims because they "had it tough" and not consider them as responsible adult but more as children. I'm mocking the position of my adversaries.

You must consider muslims as deep idiots if you think that the west can manipulate them in every of their religious choice.

Don't worry many french politicians are on my list of traitors.

My point was never to pretend that all muslims are like this or like that. However the big picture is that Islam and freedom of religion don't match. I don't care of the theory, I will change my opinon the day all muslim countries would stop to penalize apostasy (and blasphemy by death).

About far right anti mask, in France 0.

About the caricature presented, I don't have any problem.

I don't. First because my health condition doesn't allow me to fight, and I scorn people who call violence when they're not able to perform the said violence, and I care too much about the lives of people I love to hope for violence.

That's just reality. Muslims and progressive love to depict us as horrible people when the situation would already have turned into a civil war in many countries, if the "gauls" weren't so pacifist or floppy, it depend of the point of view.
Many people consider peace as granted, it's not.

Complete bullshit. The only common point of countries that get terrorist attacks isn't their military applications but the presence or not of muslim communities. A tons of vietnamese got killed : did we heard of vietnamese terrorism ? No. The democratic republic of congo is living of the worst humanitarian situation of this last decades and despite the wide spread congolese diaspora, is there congolese terrorism ? No.

 

I recall the last time, and how the European leaders marched for freedom of speech - even Merkel. Yet as someone said, why didn't they march for freedom of speech when Clinton deliberately bombed a TV station in Belgrade in support of the KLA terrorists in Kosovo? Also if the social media and MSM is going to censor speech, why not censor all vulgarity, insults, provocations, etc., and not just that which goes against a person's political leanings.

Anyway right now there is a call in Muslim countries to boycott French products because of what Macron said about Islam:

The French Foreign Ministry expresses its regret, as "in many Middle Eastern countries in recent days there have been calls for a boycott of French products, especially in the agri-food sector, as well as a general call for demonstrations against France, on condition of hate in some cases, such as circulate on social media ".
​

I wonder if Erdogan is behind the boycott. I know there is a lot of friction going on between France and Turkey over the East Aegean.

 

Breaking news! It seems that the PM of Pakistan has decided to whippe the Muslims up into a religious war against France. Over what? Macron paying tribute to the beheaded teacher.

Pakistan PM accuses Macron of attacking Islam by 'encouraging' blasphemous cartoons
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...lasphemous-cartoons/ar-BB1annpt?ocid=msedgntp

 

A terrorist from Pakistan performed an attack one month ago. Some people are shameless.

 

...probably the Russians....you know the deal....stir the ingredients and watch the pot boil....that sort of thing. You Russians are semi-masters in the theory of it buuuut not so good in application....nice try though!

 

There is a renewed religious war going on thanks to Erdogan and it's being fueled by Merkel's constant acquiescence to his ambitions and disregard of international law in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean. She bows to Erdogan's blackmail of sending more migrants to Europe, and also fears for the German investments in Turkey.

Erdogan's power grows as he realizes he can do whatever he wants - and although Turkey is hated by all his Arab, Christian and Kurd neighbors, it does have the support of Pakistan and the culturally affiliated Turkic people that range from Bosnia to China and who want a resurgence of their former 'power'. According to the Armenians, Pakistani troops have been sent to Azerbiajan.

As for France, Erdogan's disregard for international law and treaties has been hurting them economically. When Italy went to search for oil and gas in the area allotted to them by the legal Cypriot government, Turkey chased them away. So Italy being its cowardice self, left. But not France. When Turkey tried to do the same thing to them, the reaction was different. Now Turkey and France are staunch enemies.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called on Turkish people "never" to buy French goods, Reuters reported.

"We see Macron's anti-Islamic insults and racist terrorism as a threat to our national security and this is what we are guided by when we draft our plans", Erdogan said in an address he delivered in Ankara, adding that Turkey will take responsive measures, if necessary.

Erdogan also called on the international community to "protect Muslims in France who are persecuted for their faith" and stop Macron's campaign of "hatred".

"[France is] indeed part of Nazism. The person who is leading France and who needs psychiatric treatment has started encouraging attacks on Muslims", Erdogan went on to say.​

"How many billions did you say? Bless you my dear".
​

 

I'm as much a Russian as you are Scotch, the difference is that I don't pretend to be one. Can you say the same?


Hauntingly beautiful! ENJOY!

 

...I prefer Loch Ard but no bugger's made a song about it...but yes for my sins I'm from the North East (look up "teuchter")...but at the moment I'm south of the border....
Cheers sweet pea

 

How did we go from the PM of Pakistan and France to Erdogan and Turkey? None of this post tackles the issue from the news headline.

 

If you can't grasp the connection between Pakistan's boycott of French goods with its close affiliation with France's enemy; Turkey. Or of Erdogan using what Macron said to arouse the Muslims in France, then you really have a problem.

Anyway, I'm just giving you some background that you won't find in the MSM.

 

Ok.

 

N o dear it was just a very long time ago and CH have been so busy getting more printed and people killed that there is too many pages for me to move through.
VoltreAltesse

can you give me the link?

What I wrote was in no way me offending Christians. Pray tell what did I write that you found offensive to Christians? My personal view on Christianity which I was born into and gave up at age 11 when an American girl who I had been trying to save, pointed out to me that rather than Heaven and Angels.. god may instead be a little boy on another planet who has made us as his science project. It sounded at least as plausible so I gave up Christianity - which beforehand I had followed with my heart. Now I feel great empathy with Christians who care about injustices, most of all probably Christians who have empathy. I would suggest that one of the goals of spirituality is empathy. However Christians like the Christian Right who went to Africa to try and get black gays killed and who are working to make sure Israel has all of the land their bible says 'jews' will have and who have zero empathy, I have no respect for. Respect must be earned. That group of Christians also try to destroy the Christians who are labelled 'progressive' who go around the world trying to help third world countries, trying to get them free of oppression, trying to get them schooling and medical care. The far right Christian group tell the people in these countries throught the raidios which go thought the country that these Christians are the real Imperialists. They say these Christians are telling them to respect gays because gays will destroy their country. Yes, the Christianity with no heart is working to destroy those Christians with strong Spirituality and empathy. Now who are you suggesting I was offending and please give the quote of me doing the offending.

Extremist Christians like Extremist Muslims do extremist things. Trump is supported by extremist Christians. They would like to make the US into a Christian Theocratic State and some of them have suggested such things as stoning American adulters and there being no need for trials, there would just be summary punishment. They are by no means all of the Christian right but they are a very high number and those are the people who have got into power under Trump eg Pence. I have heard estimates there are at this extreme level between 40-70 million. I think probably 40 million is more accurate but they have the ability to get the vote of Christians who although being on the right would not vote that far, or possibly win their hearts in other ways as they did originally in stopping abortion acceptance from Right Christians - something they never won in Africa. Christian fascism is of much more danger to the US than white Nationalists simply because there are far more of them, they are in power under Trump, they secured their place in the US Justice system. working on this since the 80's and basically they are there where they need to be to execute power. They have been working on this since Carter opened his mouth and started talking about the need for the Palestinians to have rights too - something any genuine Christian would see. If extremist right wing Christians (like Pence) had the power I would suggest they would probably beat extremist Muslims in their barbarity. Possibly they would need to toss a dice as to who was the most barbaric but they are on a par. In America Extremist Christians are looking for that power.

One song? I never heard of it!

sorry not so much time at the moment. Will deal with the rest of you post in two or three days.

 

I liked your Science Experiment perspective - cant remember which post . You should also try this one. Imagine after 10,000 years in heaven ...and how many Hail Mary's (I jest here - praising the Most High is banned in heaven) - you decide to take a vacation .. choosing from any of the millions options - other worlds - the one main rule being that you will not remember your past life.. where would you go ?

The next question is .. if you chose earth .. and your soul was going to once again reside in a fleshy abode - when would be a good time for the soul to enter that abode ? A) Random B) Conception - single human cell C) I think therefor I am

Now on to Islam ! one of my favorite topics

Sorry for jumping in here and cherry picking out a few points as there was a whole lot - and looks like many posts back and forth between you two.

Two ideas here A) Free speech - I agree that there is a limit out there but Islamists go way beyond what is politically incorrect to speak... meaning - at some point a murderer is a murderer .. and if it happens to be a bunch of Muslims or a bunch of Soldiers we need to be able to call a spade a spade. Religious criticism must be allowed .. where is the line and who draws it

B) Demonization of the Other - for sure is in play here. This is the tactic being used by the propagandists who feed us our daily bread of false narrative.

I once had a debate with a Muslim who who was defending "Sharia" - and at the same time claiming "There is no Compulsion in Islam"
It took awhile but I did manage to get my point across .. Forcing personal or sub-group religious belief on someone through physical violence (Law) - is compulsion by definition.

This is why we need to distinguish between "Islamists" - and non Islamist Muslims .. further divide separating out the Saudi Inspired Dogma/ideology from the Shia .. as discussed later.
.

This is a very difficult situation. A) I do fee for my friends from Eastern Europe .. Bosnia .. places like that - where Muslims are
" "normal people"" .. smoke, drink alcohol, women wear make up, work, get educated, wear proper bathing suits and short skirts - dance provocatively to pop music - and choose for themselves who they will shag that evening..
"" _" - no normative judgement expressed or implied for the PC folks ready to pounce - using a colloquialism.

These folks are getting a seriously bum deal .. blamed for stuff they did not do .. or think. They hate the Islamists - and of course the Saudi inspired terrorists.

And lastly - in deed France was part of the large coalition of Nations who - Led by Obama - decided it would be a good idea to Arm, Support, Supply - a radical Islamist Jihadist Proxy army - the Saudi Inspired version - led by Al Qaeda and later ISIS - and included the likes of some of our other favorites such as Taliban, Boko Haram, and every other radical extremist from around the world who wanted to join the party .. the Holy War to bring Strict Sharia to Syria .. One of the only significant Secular Muslim nations left in the ME.. where Christian Churches stand beside Mosques and Jewish Synagogues.

 

It's on page 3, at the bottom in a post where I tagged you.

The problem is that we're stuck on a loop. You keep telling me how evil are the christian, and how mean are some american christian in Africa don't have a lot to do with what happened to this teacher in France. We already had similar conversations.

And I'm staying on that fact : the only country that punish by death apostasy are muslims, the only one that punish in any way apostasy or the fact to try to convert a member of the religion are muslims, the only countries that punish homosexuality by death are muslims with potentially now the exception of Uganda, the only countries that punish by death blasphemy are muslim.

The action of some mean christian extremist in Africa when you consider the juridic reality of muslim countrie are meaningless.

Muslims have build in every of their country even democratic totalitarian theocratic law with some degrees. In some country they chop your head off, in other they put you in prison.

The theory of Islam is meaningless in front of the consideration of the established laws in muslim countries, the same can be said over some christian extremist.

 

Unsurprising travel warnings are being issued:

 

This might come as a shock, but Americans in Turkey have been warned this past week to avoid tourist places and consulates have been closed because they have been warned of a terrorist attack. So there is a lot more going on than meets the eye.

As for France, their friction with Turkey has been going on for quite some time.

 

A defense of Charlie Hebdo running those cartoons again.

People must have the right to mock Muhammad

 

Can you imagine being so incredibly ugly that as part of the religion you make up, you create a rule that anyone who draws a picture of you must be murdered?

 

sent before finished by error