To impeach or not to impeach, that is the question

Explanation accepted. If you oppose Trump, don't play into the hands of his fans. This thread concerns his impeachment, and it is an ongoing story. I am trying to keep readers updated.

 

A Trump fan.

Are you aware that Pelosi announced yesterday that Articles of Impeachment will be written?

 

I rest my case. These are Trump supporters. The updates in the first report occurred yesterday. The same day these posts were written.

 

The evidence says differently. What happened to Republicans & conservatives to make them supporters of an authoritarian President more than supporters of the common law, the Constitution, or the country as a whole? Trump is damaging all three with his self-serving shenanigans. Pelosi is right when she says, this is about protecting the Constitution, NOT politics or party. Political disagreements on issues can & will be decided in the 2020 election, but protecting the Constitution from a President who doesn't recognize or accept the Constitutional limits on his own power, is beyond politics or party, & must be decided by Congress. There is no alternative.

 

When you can post something that necessitates anyone coming to the defense of Trump, let us know.

 

It is a sham. They are in such a hurry they can’t wait for a court decision on McGahn in January that they argue is necessary for the investigation. They can’t chance letting the voters decide.

 

As expected, Trump will not challenge the evidence against him.

The Post writes, "Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, indicated to the House Judiciary Committee on Friday that Trump would not be sending attorneys to its hearing on Monday, when the panel charged with drafting articles of impeachment will hear evidence from Intelligence Committee lawyers on the investigation into the president’s conduct toward Ukraine.

"The scathing, two-paragraph letter reiterated the White House’s protests that the Democrats’ impeachment investigation violated Trump’s due process rights. Cipollone did not explicitly say the White House would not participate in the House process going forward, but gave no indication that it would."

The letter is typically Trumpian. Trump makes accusations, but never explains them. In this case, the White House has made the claim that the "impeachment investigation violated Trump’s due process rights," but the two paragraph letter does not explain how the impeachment investigation is violating Trump's due process. In the case of the Judiciary Committee, they have invited Trump's lawyers and his witnesses. Schiff did the same in the open hearings of the Intelligence Committee. In both cases, Trump has refused then he turns around and says he is being denied due process while calling the Constitutionally mandated impeachment proceedings a hoax.

Trump is relying on lies and attempted deception. Those are the actions of a very guilty President.

 

“I would like you to do us a favor, though.”

This is from the transcript of the July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky. It was provided by the White House. The following is a quote from Trump.

Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General.· :Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States,· the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in.the Ukraine.were bad news so I jtist want to_let you know that. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son,. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.

“What you’re describing is a quid pro quo,” asserted a reporter. “We do that all the time,” replied [Trump's chief of staff] Mulvaney. “Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that’s it. That’s why we held up the money … I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.” http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/mulvaney-ukraine-get-over-it.html

After the July 25 phone call with Zelensky, as he usually does, Trump doubled down on the Biden investigation. On Oct. 3, in a news conference on the White House lawn, he called on Ukraine and China to look into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter.

“If they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens,” Trump said when asked what he wanted Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to do about the former veep and his son.

“They should investigate the Bidens,” Trump said. “Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/03/trump-calls-for-ukraine-china-to-investigate-the-bidens.html

There is no getting around it. It is all well and good that Republicans can say Trump did nothing to cause his removal from office, but if the Republicans in the Senate exonerate Trump, if Trump's fans continue to insist impeachment is a sham, then the Republican Party and Trump's fans are saying:

A) The President is permitted to ask for foreign interference in our elections to improve his chances of winning.

B) The President is permitted to use military aid approved by Congress to a country fighting Russian aggression as a means of extortion to compel a foreign leader to comply with his wishes.

C) To cover up his deeds, the President is permitted to use obstruction of justice.

D) The President is permitted to ignore Congressional oversight as mandated by our Constitution.

Is this what the Republican Party wants to be remember for?

 

More on the hysterical nonsense train eh?

 

Republicans want Democrats and the whistleblower to be on Trump's list of defense witnesses.

Trump tweeted on Thursday that he wants to call Schiff, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Bidens as witnesses in his impeachment trial. They are on the list Republicans submitted to Nadler today.

Why in the world do Trump and Republicans want to call Democrats and the whistleblower as witnesses? How can they possibly help Trump's defense?

I have not heard a Republican explanation for calling such witnesses.

 

As expected, no reaction from Trump's fans. Trump is guilty as hell, they know it, and there isn't a thing they can say.

 

As expected, no reaction from Trump's fans. Trump is guilty as hell, they know it, and there isn't a thing they can say.

 

What he is guilty of does not justify impeachment and removal from office.

 

So you are saying it is okay for President to request foreign interference in our elections for his benefit and use bribery on a foreign leader as an incentive?

Answer the question.

 

Neither of these things happened,so, like always, your point is moot.

 

Not "okay" but not worthy of impeachment and removal from office either.

Vote to censure him and be done with it.

 

So, in your view, the President is above the law. Requesting foreign intervention in our elections is a violation of federal law. Bribery is a violation of our laws and is specifically mentioned in our Constitution.

Like our friend who says none of this happen, you illustrated perfectly how weak Trump's defense is. Why? Because he is guilty, of course.

Letting him get off with mere censure -- which is essentially of little consequence -- will convince Trump that he is above the law and, if he wins a second term, the next four years could be a nightmare.

Moreover, many are convinced that Trump often acts like a Putin puppet. America might not survive another four years of Trump if we let him off the hook.

You want this?

 

I don't want a precedent set where a president is removed largely because he is repulsive and unpopular. No serious person thinks that Trump is some kind of Putin puppet. You don't even believe that if you were honest.

As I've stated here more than once. No one is above the law. But the presidency must be beyond the law to a degree otherwise the vital executive branch will never be equal to the other two branches of government.

I worry much more about America's presidency being crippled and neutered than I do about the president violating some arcane and ill considered laws.

 

?

Does this refer to during the 2016 election campaign that Donald Trump suggested that the Russians find Hillary Clinton's missing emails?

You really believe anyone was supposed to take that seriously?

 

Fortunate then that Trump did neither.

 

As I said::
When you can post something that necessitates anyone coming to the defense of Trump, let us know.
So far, all you've done is cross-posted the same meaningless spam, over and over and over.

 

No, that is the Executive branch and the Department of Justice. Congress is NOT a law enforcement agency.

Impeachments of the President have been prefaced by independent investigations and referrals of crimes. NOT by an opposition Congress deciding to just investigate a President to see what they could find. And no Starr did not take five years of secret meetings to bring the charges he brought against Clinton. In fact that went fairly quickly in spite of Clinton's attempt to prevent the investigation and his grand jury testimony. We no longer have an INDEPENDENT Prosecutor who reported direct to the Congress. The Democrats objected to that and it was change to a SPECIAL prosecutor who reported to the Attorney General. Now the Democrats don't like that and won't to go back to the independent because it didn't work in their favor.

 

Requesting a signature country to abide by a mutual cooperation treaty to investigate probable cause of corruption between our two counties is not a violation of federal law and in fact a duty of a President.

 

I should think this has been adequately explained by now. The House of Representatives researches and documents crimes and their report (Articles of Impeachment) are forwarded to the Senate for trial. The Senate decides guilt or innocence and, if found guilty, the president is removed from office. That is the extent of their enforcement ability under the Constitution. If civil authority crafts a statement of charges, a trial will take place under civil authority apart from Congress.

 

He is not being impeached because he is repulsive and unpopular, although he is. As I have shown countless time, Trump is being impeached for his actions, not his revolting personality that so pleases his fans.

I have provided a thread that showed how Trump has made several decisions that pleases Putin to no end. Examples would include his Middle East talks that have removed the U.S. as a broker replaced by Russia, removing the U.S. from JCPOA moving Iran closer to Russia, his retreat in Syria and the Russian occupation of our bases there, and his constant bickering with our NATO partners. NATO leaders laughed at Trump at their recent summit. That alone please Putin enormously. Putin loves the idea of Trump driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies.

I don't want to divert attention from Trump's impeachment. If you want details, I will provide the link. BTW, the thread had a short life because Trump's fans had no desire to get involved. At this point that is all I want to say on the subject.

Now back to impeachment news.