Trump Cites Progress In Keeping Carrier Air Conditioning Plant In Indiana

what I am saying is that on a grid you cannot drop power lower than the load on that grid without problems. In other words there has to be sufficient redundancy if a problem occurs with one of the generation sources. Why build 1000 Mw of Solar farms and a 1000 Mw of NG generation when you can just build 1000 Mw NG generation plant for a lot less than the solar farm and have less expensive electricity which is available 24 and 7

 

Why not just use solar for heating water.. That would certainly cut your electrical usage.

 

I agree with that.

However, we always build excess power in order to meet peak demand, future demand, etc. - capacity we don't use.

Including renewable energy sources in that calculation doesn't require us to risk brown outs.

We can have fossil fuel capacity that is being used as little as possible.

Interestingly, the solar plant in the desert outside Marakech uses liquid salt as it's heat transport. That carries enough heat that it can run the power plant at full capacity when there is no sun!!

 

its not a boycott, its a demand for products that employ americans... I clearly acknowledge there are americans who can't afford anything but the cheapest version of whatever it is... but there are many americans who can afford to buy according to their morals and values, but for whatever reason they have decided to stop buying things that way, the ones who can afford to, are the ones who need to step up, to cause volume savings to increase so the poor can afford to purchase the items at comparable prices as a result of that decrease in manufacturing cost as a result of volume... so please don't try to say this is a boycott, its about exercising your morals and values with your dollars, and for those who can't afford to have that luxury, they need those of us who can afford that luxury, to start exercising it for the rest of them... but nobody seems to want to...

everyone always wants it to be someone elses problem to fix, the reality is, WE as individuals are the only ones who can solve this problem, no amount of government will ever force a solution thats lasting or meaningful if WE don't change our spending habits... we're literally shooting ourselves in the foot, and nobody seems to think anything is wrong with a nation of people hopping around on one foot screaming it hurts it hurts...

P.S. you clearly belong to the portion of americans I called the "all is lost give up now" type of attitude... my generation would never have accepted you... unfortunately it seems our children raised you... so in some way maybe its our fault for making their lives a little too easy...

 

OK, so where does any of that dispute what I said? Where in there does is show the US can compete on making consumer products, (*)(*)(*)(*) you can barely hold your heads above water in the auto industry.
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Your 'fact check' doesn't even mention sectors let alone manufacturing of consumer goods.

It's no wonder a moron like Trump can get elected with that kind of complete ignorance on economics.

 

That's what a boycott does - you refuse to buy products where something about their provision is at issue.

It sounds like you might be old enough to remember the grape boycott of the 1970's.

I don't mean to put down the idea of campaigning to have people not buy foreign goods. But, that approach has been tried in the past and I just want to suggest that the likelihood of making a difference in something as large and diverse as US manufacturing using that technique is low. We're all good capitalists. We pay as little as possible for the level of quality we think we believe.

When US manufacturers didn't provide the cars we wanted, we bought cars from other countries. And, remember that the issue there was that US cars weren't good enough in terms of maintenance and fuel consumption - don't go suggesting that foreign goods have less quality.


As to your last cheap shot, I've posed lots of stuff that I think WILL help. So have Dems in general, as seen by Clinton's platform.

Here are a few:
http://www2.itif.org/2012-fifty-ways-competitiveness-woes-behind.pdf

 

Can you heat water with solar power in a blizzard?

 

High electricity demand in the US southwest comes when it is sunny.

Beyond that, remember that moving toward alternative energy does not mean that fossil fuel is abandoned - it means that it is used when necessary.

The Paris agreement does not suggest we have to end the use of fossil fuel.

 

Can you heat water when all the power grid in your area was taken down during a blizzard?

 

do solar panels work in a blizzard ?

 

And yet another example of right wing hyperbole and illogic

Blended power sources means that when the solar panels do not work you do use a back up system

What part of that is hard to understand?

Bloody hell Australia has been using backup power generation for bloody years now - is America that backward?

 

One of the many concerns that those working in the field have about our current, outdated, ageing power systems is that firstly we are relying too much on central distribution and secondly there is no real reserve or back up in the system

we are coming closer with battery packs for households but we are not there yet

 

That was true but now we are using "smart grid" technology and that has become a game changer

 

and thinking like yours is why Australia has soaring electrical prices and it's economy is a disaster.

Solar and wind is like buying 2 cars, 1 which only runs a few hours a day and then buying another one which runs 24 hours a day and 7 days a week so that when the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing you can drive to work. Why not just buy the one which will do the job 24 & 7 ?

not that it matters, Austrailia can commit economic suicide it that what the citizens want, but I am sure damn tired of you trying to convince us to jump off the cliff with you. Thank God Trump was elected

 

: yeah sure!! Australia came through the global economic crises much better than America did

But go for it! Cling to your outdated electrical system and watch the world pass you by!! We are jumping on the bandwagon - yeah hurts a little now but as time goes on electricity prices are coming down and we have an improved and cheaper system

 

I noticed you did not answer the question about paying for 2 cars.

underline added by me

Energy policy failures threaten manufacturing investment and jobs

Statement from Manufacturing Australia Chairman, Mark Chellew and Executive Director, Ben Eade

Last month's power outage in South Australia was extremely damaging for manufacturing in that state.

It follows previous incidents in South Australia this year that have led to both supply outages and extremely high energy prices.

The lack of stability and high power prices in South Australia are threatening both existing and future manufacturing investment in a state already reeling from automotive closures.

New manufacturing investment is particularly at risk. Energy costs are one of the key input costs in manufacturing. The more expensive and unstable our energy system, the more difficult it is to make the economic case for building new manufacturing plants, or making necessary re-investment in existing plants.

It is critical that the review of energy security being led by Dr Alan Finkel AO emphasises the need for both energy security and energy affordability, which are fundamental to competitive manufacturing.

 

Decentralizing the grid should be a national priority. Millions of people shouldn't lose power because an ice storm took down a relay station somewhere.

 

a boycott is a protest, its a punishment... this is not a protest or a punishment, its a way of living, its a way of putting your country and people first... thats not a protest... or do you protest every time you put yourself first, or pick one thing over another, are you protesting every second of your life when you make a decision you prefer a burger over a taco? no... you're not boycotting tacos, you just prefer a burger... there is nothing wrong with that... and people need to start deciding, are they going to actively participate in a way that helps their fellow americans, or will they just (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and complain and say it can't be done or its someone elses job... I'm not telling people to stop consuming, I'm telling them to put americans first... its not that they can't go buy a television made in japan, but if there was an american television perhaps they should make a lifestyle choice to buy it first...

so please stop trying to confuse words and call it something its not... nationalism isn't a boycott of the rest of the world, its supporting YOUR country first... its not that you can't enjoy the other countries, but put your fellow americans first... thats not a boycott... its a lifestyle choice...

I'm also not suggesting we buy "american crap" as you danced around, I'm suggesting we at least put our pocket books where are mouths are... and everyone is long on excuses, and short on action... I wouldn't expect anything less from these recent generations, all hot air and no action... just take a look at how many folks will record horrific events, but won't do a damn thing to lift a finger to help people during them...

I hate the phrase the pussification of america... but if the shoe fits...

 

I think a lot of us are hoping he will step and be a decent man. Hopefully he will admit to himself that he doesn't know anything and certainly not more than the generals and other experts. But it will take a lot of convincing. I think he's too narcissistic to rise to the occasion - too childish, to simple, to volatile. And I think everyone wants to save US jobs. The question is, will his tactics create a trade war and continue to transfer wealth to the wealthiest among us? We all want to save jobs. Can Trump really fix a fundamental problem? Do we really want to move to isolationism? More likely he will either find he can't do most of what he claimed, or he will create a disaster. Saving thousands of jobs isn't worth costing millions or driving inflation through the roof.

My biggest concern is that he will blunder into a nuclear exchange just by being pompous and ignorant. Wars often happen even when no one really wants one. Events can take on a life of their own. For example, invade Iraq and you blow up the entire ME. You know, stuff like that.

 

The right is spending a lot of time trying to tell us that Trump was grossly misrepresenting himself throughout the full period of his candidacy.

I really do not see any argument for that point of view. Nobody can can misrepresent themselves that perfectly.

As for Carrier, the real problem here is that bringing some companies back isn't going to make any significant difference in the unemployment rate of out of work manufacturing workers. There are just too many of them and for too many of them, modern manufacturing corporations passed them by. Also, the issues of pay, retirement, health care, job security, job safety, etc., etc. no longer have advocates since unions have been smashed. Expecting corporations to come back and build plants that require a lot of employees is a pipe dream - remembering that "pipe dream" came as a reference to smoking opium. And, other nations have caught up to us in manufacturing. Germany is a major exporter of large equipment - people like their product. China is a major exporter of modern alternative energy equipment - people like their product.

The "bring back" thing hits me as a scavenger hunt.

What we need is near term jobs and a longer term strategy of becoming more competitive - requiring education (including vocational), R&D investment, etc.

Why did we let alternative energy pass us by???

- - - Updated - - -

Amen.

And, what are the chances he's going to screw up with Iran?

 

I think you are just saying that the boycott you want is permanent.

The boycott on grapes wasn't a boycott on all grapes - just grapes coming from one place. Nobody was suggesting that people not buy grapes.

Plus, it's incredibly hard to determine where stuff is actually made these days. Is it helping to boycott Toyota when they are made in Kentucky, Mississippi, and Indiana? Where do the parts and engineering come from? Where are the profits going? How will Toyota change if we make decisions impacting Toyota? Aren't they helping us by moving cars toward being more fuel efficient when US manufacturers refused to do so - even with legislation?

 

I knew someone would bring up the SA outage. Caused by a one in fifty year storm that brought down transmission lines across the state - yeah the right wing here had a field day- for a short while but even our PM got his bum kicked for blaming the outage on renewables. Boom line is that the wind power has been so successful in SA that the coal fired stations shut down because they could not compete!!! This left the back up from Victoria and gas - which can be expensive to fill those gaps

http://theconversation.com/the-real...ty-crisis-we-need-better-climate-policy-66028

The whole thing should be better managed but what stands in the way? Ding bat denialists who do not understand the complexities

 

in your toyota example you could argue they are being made in america, and parts are coming from american companies, so that is how you influence things, toyota long ago decided to make cars in america for several reasons, one HUGE reason was the growing backlash of them being a foreign made car... so they did what any smart company would do, they tackled the problem, they looked into manufacturing and cost savings in doing so within american territory... this was MUCH against their nations desires to keep this manufacturing there, this is just like when china makes companies move to china to make products there if they want to sell there...

so toyota pushed against much resistance if you're old enough to remember, creating a manufacturing plant in america... workers back then were looked at as traitors to america, and toyota had an immense uphill climb that people went against at every turn of the way... but as more companies left america, suddenly people said, hey you know what, others left while toyota came here, and they began to win the propaganda war because they MADE jobs in america not took them away from americans... so all that effort was paid off as they are now a top brand in america... they still make the cars competitive, they still make them with quality, and they make them with american labor... this is what we NEED to happen...

but to touch on "profits" and such... yes money does flow back out of this country, but MORE of it stays within america as a result of the sourced item being assembled here using some american made parts... but as for the tech side of it, the advertising side of it, a lot of those dollars are still lost to japan and flow back there as what happens with any corporation from another country... this is why its not important to just tackle the manufacturing side of things, but the corporate level of things... corporate jobs are my preferred job for americans, I want corporations to relocate here but our tax code and laws are not as favorable as other countries, so we're always on the losing side of that since growth is international, not in america...

so while I could say toyota is not an american company, and we do lose some of our dollars on every purchase to overhead that occurs with every corporation headquartered half a world away, we retain a larger portion of those dollars than if the items were made exclusively in another country, sourced in another country, and headquartered in another country... so toyota wouldn't be my first choice, but it certainly would not be knocked far down the choice tree because they have made great efforts to win over the "made in america" crowd that once scoffed at anyone who drove one... thats the type of win we need to keep more jobs in america, because today, were just losing everything in the process, rather than retain some...

thats the difference between leaders and politicians... politicians appease the squeaky wheel to retain or win power, leaders have a long-term vision against great obstacles but they can see the results paid off in the end... toyota was an example of a leader, all out presidents are examples of polticians... we need more leaders to become politicians, problem is, none of them want to put all that effort into something they will get smeared for, thats why so many good people never go into government, they don't want to be dragged through the mud and be accused of things they are not... so we're left with crummy politician after crummy politician, on both sides, who just cater to the squeaky wheels, and no true long-term vision...

 

and yet you continue to evade my simple question. Why should I build 2 power plants. One to provide electricity on the days the sun is shining, the second to provide power when it is dark or cloudy when I can just build one that will do the job 24 and 7 and do it cheaper.

Oh and if you din't notice we tend to get a few storms in the USA also

 

Because the system should have redundancy. What? You think it currently does not? You might want to rely on old technology that is spewing multiple pollutants into the atmosphere and has no backup as well as being more expensive to run. But I want the cheaper cleaner newer alternative.