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Trump ended the rule blocking mentally ill people from getting guns.

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by JakeStarkey, Aug 6, 2019.

Page 5 of 53
  1. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I was doing some brainstorming about this law today and this was the exact reason why I was having trouble supporting such a proposal. I get the premise behind it but the sheer amount of variables and the can of worms this opens up is uncomfortable to me. And the military is the main reason why. Who determines someone has a mental health issue? Psychiatrists and other trained professionals. What exactly is the criteria for mental health? It varies....and that is the problem.

    Here's the thing, even the trained mental health professionals will have their hands full with this because trained professionals can't even all agree on "how bad" someone is in the military. I see it on a routine basis, one mental health professional says "you have bad PTSD and anxiety" and the other one says you're perfectly fine. Military personnel have a whole lot of "mental health" issues ranging from mild to severe and remain on active duty because if they actually discharged people for PTSD and anxiety issues then they'd have no fighting force. What exactly do we do with them? How could any psychiatrist openly say yeah we don't trust you to own firearms at home but we are fine with you operating an armed battle tank....

    Pretty much everybody in the Army owns guns and more than a fair share of them are at least a little bit "off their rocker" by some professionals medical definition. War will do that to you. War is one of those things that will almost unanimously screw you up at least a little bit if you end up going to fight in one. Paranoia, PTSD, anxiety, nightmares, rage, etc.

    Hell I'M "off my rocker" a little bit if we are going to use this huge broad mental health terminology. A few years ago my neighbor was lighting off fireworks in his backyard while I was asleep. A loud BANG woke me up in the middle of the night and I jumped up heart racing grabbed my firearm and dove to the floor. Came to my senses and realized I was at home, set the firearm down and sat against the wall in a cold sweat calming myself down for the next 10 mins. In his defense he always told me whenever he would be making noises like that before, I didn't notify him that I had returned from vacation that day (he was watching my house for me) and I was dropped off by a friend so my truck wasn't parked outside.

    Is that a "mental health" disorder? Yeah by definition it is. We were conditioned to respond like that and after countless real encounters like that it becomes instinctive and it's not something you can turn off at will. Hell half of the firefights I got into were in boxer shorts and battle gear because the outposts usually got hit in the middle of the night. Sure during the day when I'm awake it's easier to control obviously, but at night while asleep and suddenly woken up my brain isn't firing on all cylinders and immediate instinctive action takes over. As with hundreds of thousands of other folks who have served in combat. That's why the whole gently wake people up or call their name out and don't touch them sort of thing is a very real practice among vets. Don't startle them awake...It's not good...at all...

    So who exactly is making this call? And who's definition are we using? And who actually qualifies as "crazy" or "dangerous"? It's going to be very difficult to apply any sort of definition to this without having to apply it to the military.
     
    Nightmare515, Aug 7, 2019
    #101
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  2. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Nightmare515 asks great questions, that will have to answered specifically to fit a due process procedure for removing weapons from a person who has been diagnosed as possible dangerous to others and himself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #102
    trickyricky and Gary/Dubya like this.
  3. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    So out of almost 300 mass shootings, one was a white guy killing Hispanics. That is what you are calling a racist epidemic?

    Weird.
     
    SiNNiK, Aug 7, 2019
    #103
  4. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    You, SiNNik, called it "a racist epidemic," not FlaimingLib.

    And, yes, we are are going to talk about race, try to define racism as a mental illness, and try to make such a barrier to a person owning fire arms.
     
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #104
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  5. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Democrats called it a racist epidemic. You are complicit, as are all Democrats and Liberals.

    What about black people who prefer the company of white people more than the company of black people. You plan on taking their guns too?
     
    SiNNiK, Aug 7, 2019
    #105
  6. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Only you, SiNNik, are calling "it a racist epidemic." That aside, it is a problem, and you are complicit in denying that is a serious issue.

    The second sentence in #105 is an excellent logic fallacy.
     
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #106
  7. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Liberalism is a mental disorder. You should all be barred from owning weapons. Your aim probably sucks anyway.
     
    Josh77, Aug 7, 2019
    #107
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  8. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely a serious issue. I think you should keep your gun on you, just in case.
     
    SiNNiK, Aug 7, 2019
    #108
  9. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    I do CCW, and so will every sane person despite a race as a mental disease issue.
     
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #109
  10. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Some here seem to have some anger issues, which in many people do rise mental illness. If the professionals say racism is a mental issue, then it will be diagnosed as such. Why should anyone think that using race as a category for private and public management decisions is an indicator of mental illness?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #110
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have no idea what you are trying to say or what it applies to, try just sticking to the reality.
     
    Bluesguy, Aug 7, 2019
    #111
  12. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How did you come to the conclusion that 78% of those murdering people are "mentally healthy"?
     
    Doofenshmirtz, Aug 7, 2019
    #112
    SiNNiK, glitch and trickyricky like this.
  13. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You finally corrected yourself. You went from "Mentally ill" "crazy" to "Dangerous to others". If we focus on those who are a danger to others, we can make a difference.

    You are incorrect. Racism, like religion, is taught. Once a child is indoctrinated, choosing to stop is not as easy as you make it sound. Religion and racism is declining in the US.
     
    Doofenshmirtz, Aug 7, 2019
    #113
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  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Then it's a choice, even if changing is difficult. I didn't say it was easy.

    I began an experiment over a year ago. Anytime I saw a black person in a store, on TV, on the street, I looked for the beauty in that person. Certainly all races have their great-looking people and their ugly people, but I began looking for the beauty/handsomeness. Then I began looking for intelligence. And now I find those characteristics more often than I did when I began the experiment.
     
    Kode, Aug 7, 2019
    #114
  15. trickyricky

    trickyricky Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    trickyricky, Aug 7, 2019
    #115
  16. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    You corrected yourself, doofen: dangerous to others and mentally ill and crazy are all obstacles to owning guns.

    You are inaccurate about racism as well. It is a mental illness, and anti-social personality can warp into dangerous behavior. You are right that racism is declining in the US as the far right wing dies out more quickly than their opponents.
     
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #116
  17. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Renee said: ↑
    If my neighbor was mentally ill and had delusions that dogs are coming to hurt him and I told him there are many vicious dogs nearby that can hurt him, and he shoots one..arent i part of the problem?
    That you don't understand Renee's clear and excellent analysis is on you, no one else.
     
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #117
  18. Douglas Barker

    Douglas Barker Newly Registered

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    it is not a fantasy about the left. They want to take away freedom. When the left builds walls it is to keep you in.
     
    Douglas Barker, Aug 7, 2019
    #118
  19. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you look at people differently based on the color of their skin, would that not make you a racist?
     
    Doofenshmirtz, Aug 7, 2019
    #119
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mentally ill does not equal dangerous. I gave you an example: Vietnam vet receiving treatment for PTSD. Even though he is not a danger to others, you propose denying him his second amendment rights. How do you justify that?
     
    Doofenshmirtz, Aug 7, 2019
    #120
  21. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, but Trump isn't a fascist like that pig Obama. In this country your rights cannot be revoked without due process. Trump was right. Why do liberals hate freedom and the Constitution? So pathetic...
     
    Dispondent, Aug 7, 2019
    #121
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  22. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is such a thing as doctor/patient privilege. I guess you never hear of it. Research the Privacy Act of 1974. I know there is a lot of lazy MFs on this website so let me do the research for you.

    https://www.justice.gov/opcl/privacy-act-1974
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    flyboy56, Aug 7, 2019
    #122
  23. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    JakeStarkey said: ↑
    You corrected yourself, doofen: dangerous to others and mentally ill and crazy are all obstacles to owning guns.

    You are inaccurate about racism as well. It is a mental illness, and anti-social personality can warp into dangerous behavior. You are right that racism is declining in the US as the far right wing dies out more quickly than their opponents.
    Mental illness certainly can warp into dangerous behavior. Any sociopathology can. Please do not deny what is so. The 2dA does not protect the mentally ill to have and own firearms.
     
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #123
  24. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Trump revoked his own process of due rights for the mentally ill.

    Doctors have an obligation as do lawyers to report their patients if they have reason to believe their patients may act criminally or dangerously to others.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    JakeStarkey, Aug 7, 2019
    #124
  25. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What? There was no due process in what that jackass Obama wanted to do. Are you sure you even understand what due process is? Are you even an American?
     
    Dispondent, Aug 7, 2019
    #125
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