What is the ultimate goal of gun control? Is it about guns? About control? Or saving lives?

x

 

Howard Stern on guns.

 

Howard is a long time holder of the very rare as a Dodo bird New York City pistol license.

 

several prominent gun banners/gun restrictionists did/do too

Joan Rivers-big gun banner
Publisher of the NYT-one of the most anti gun rags in the USA
Chuckie Schumer-messed his shorts when the Clinton Gun ban was passed

 

California and NYS are examples of states with some of the lowest per capita gun deaths in the nation

 

that's because most of those states are open areas with low population densities and prosperous voters. The cities in California lead the country in murders-and parts of NYC have been awful many years.

 

Yes, a bit over 10 years in N.Y.C. Emergency Medical Services, I saw quite a few shooting victims..... Certain parts of Brooklyn South, Harlem, the Bronx are horrible, lots of street violence.

 

This is true but when looked at from the perspective of firearms murders California ranks 12th and New York 27th of the 50 states. And yet they rank 9th and 3rd respectively in gun ownership per capita. Interesting, fewer guns per capita and yet more murders.

Now look at western states like Montana, Wyoming and Idaho all have over 50% gun ownership and all are in the bottom third of the 50 states when it comes to gun murders. Idaho is ranked 3rd highest with 57% gun ownership, but 43rd in gun murders.

My point is not to try and take away from the number of gun deaths in the U.S. but to show that gun deaths due to murder are not dependent on the number of guns per capita.

In fact, the majority of gun deaths, approximately 65%, are suicides. This indicates we don't so much have a gun problem as possibly a mental health problem.

Many suicides are due to depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, personality disorders. This information would suggest to me that if we as a nation are serious about reducing gun deaths we need to address the suicide problem before addressing any problem with guns. In addition to the 22,018 suicide by firearms in 2015 there were an additional 18,671 suicides from other means.

So, most gun deaths are suicides and the majority of suicides are by gun. This might indicate the easy solution to reducing both gun deaths and suicides would to simply eliminate guns. Much easier said than done. Not only does eliminating three hundred million guns seem like a daunting if not impossible task, most Americans are not in favor of this. Some surveys indicate high numbers are in support of additional restrictions on guns but I have never seen a survey indicating a majority want to eliminate guns (If anyone has a survey showing that please link it here). The majority of Americans support some form of gun ownership.

Other suggestions for curbing gun suicides have been offered many times. A quick Google search will bring up many.

One is a waiting period to buy a gun. The idea seems to be if a person bent on death has to wait a week or two it would give them time to change their mind. My research indicates that most people who commit suicide do not just do it spur-of-the-moment but have considered it as an option for some period of time. Obviously if there is no gun handy they won't reach for it but a couple weeks wait for someone who has been contemplating suicide may not be an issue or the deciding factor. They could still buy a gun, wait to pick it up and have it handy when needed. Consider too, if a gun is not available there are other means as those 18,671 non-gun suicides would indicate.

Keeping a gun locked up might be a good option but only if the person keeping it locked up in not the one considering suicide.

Other gun control solutions offered for reducing gun murders would not work for reducing suicides. The argument for banning "assault weapons" and eliminating "large capacity magazines" would have no effect on gun suicides as most people who commit suicide with a gun seldom do it with a rifle and seldom shoot themselves more than once.

I would suggest if the overall goal is reducing gun deaths we need to start with people not guns. Let's start with being open about it, bring suicide out into an open forum to be discussed, debated talked about. Lets make people feel like they have somewhere to go for help. Don't just supply toll free hotlines, Supply people to help, someone to talk to, a shoulder to cry on. A support network of family, friends, peers, coworkers. Address it in the class room. Start early, the suicides do. In 2015, 413 kids under 15 committed suicide. The numbers only go up from there. That same year 5,491 teens and young adults between 15 and 24 chose to end their lives.

As a country lets address it like the U.S. military has started doing.

Let's decrease the stigma of seeking mental health care, it's not just a stigma in the military. The largest suicide numbers are among adult males. No matter what anyone says, most adult males still see themselves as macho. Macho men don't ask for directions and they don't ask for mental health help.

Raise awareness of suicide to a higher level. Educate everyone at every level. Educate doctors about how to recognize depression and assess for suicide risk. Not all doctors specialize in these areas. Educate religious leaders on what signs to look for. Good people but not necessarily trained on this subject. Educate community leaders, law enforcement, family, friends, children. Teach your children to recognize if there are problems with their friends. The problem is already here. Don't be afraid to talk about it. Don't hide from it, address it, learn about it.

The military is good with the "buddy system". Learn to watch out for each other.

Above all, don't be afraid to ask! If you think someone is considering suicide, ask them!: "Are you think about hurting yourself" or "Are you think about suicide". If they are already thinking about it won't hurt to ask.

Talk to people. Get to know people. So often, after the fact, in cases of suicide people feel they missed signs they should have caught. I know people who don't even know the name of their next door neighbor. Don't be afraid to get to know people. Deep down we all pretty much want the same thing.

One added benefit of reducing suicides might be a reduction in "mass shootings". So many of the shooters seem to be on self-destruct and in the end commit suicide. What makes their suicide different from most is the they decide to take innocent lives along with their own. If we can help suicidal individuals and reduce the number who carry it through maybe we can also reduce the number of mass shootings. Just a thought.

Over 40,000 of your fellow citizens are killing themselves every year. Lets fix that instead of arguing about guns.

Rich

 

And 100% of people died of death

Your point is?????

Yes we should be making effort on ALL causes of unnatural death however think on this

The cost of Firearm morbidity (that is injury) for America is 2.8 BILLION per year.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2017/10/04/gun-violence-cost-injury-study/

That would buy a hell of a lot of research and support for preventing the other causes of death

 

There are published researched studies out there

 

Start with deaths related to Tobacco use, second hand smoke, kills around half a Million people every year !!!

Tobacco is not used in hunting or defense and chewing Tobacco has been proven to cause many types of cancer of the mouth, nose and throat, and gastro intestinal system.

Tobacco brings in Billions in Tax revenues and also has a huge cost in lives according to the C.D.C.
So why are those deaths and costs not as bad ?
How many children die due to Tobacco each year ?

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_st...h_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

 

WE have virtually banned use of tobacco in Aus

Why is America so far behind us??

 

Interesting, however, the Tax Revenues resulting from Tobacco sales and a Super Aggressive Tobacco Lobby made up of powerful Tobacco industry elements that put much pressure on Government and Politicians as well as helping elect Tobacco friendly Political allies when discussions on Tobacco as well as public health costs related to all manner of Tobacco use, smoking as well as chewing which is actually worse than smoking Tobacco....

 

Very profound.

My point was to address this post which was in answer to my original question:

Since this poster indicated it was about saving lives, I was outlining one possible way to save lives lost to gun violence.

Interesting (that is arousing curiosity; holding or catching the attention); and the Global War on Terror has cost nearly $1,500,000,000,000.00. That would buy a few things also.

I was trying to address gun deaths and how to reduce their number without imposing additional gun control laws on law abiding citizens.

Thanks for your comments.

Rich

 

And we have nationalised health care. When the govenment is paying for it they become VERY invested in keeping the costs down (otherwise it eats into the golden handshakes they expect to get) We were one of the first country on Earth to mandate seat belts because we worked out it would save money

 

Do what Australia did - worked here

 

What year were seatbelts made manditory in Australia ???

 

If you are referring to the government confiscation of private firearms, I mean mandatory by back, that is not likely to work in the U.S.

 

One, your laws would be impossible to impose on the US. You know this. It's been explained many times. Two, it really didn't work as well as you think.

http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/vicViolentCol.html

 

We like freedom.

 

Look at you, not understanding that correlation does not prove causation.

 

Well, you live in Australia, I live in America, I prefer America, you seem to enjoy making fun of America and everything America is about.

You can't have guns.

 

Not witout the written permission of the state, anyway.

 

The same is true in the US in many jurisdictions

 

Well articulated.