Dudd Vs Phony

The high wages in Australia is being driven by an uncontrollable housing bubble that the foreign owned banks have been expanding for over four decades.

Peoples wages have to keep increasing so they can pay their mortgages, otherwise the whole housing system collapses. This is the problem, and manufacturing is suffering, because as the wages increase; manufacturing becomes less, & less competitive.

Unless they do something to stop the housing bubble, the economy of this entire country is going to go POP very soon.

Australia will make what happened in Greece & Ireland look like child’s play!

 

I don`t believe that the ALP really represents working people any more. The unions / ALP, at the expense of their members, have grown into a massively wealthy, financial institution, which has lost touch with it`s roots. Unions now, live off their members, rather than for them. While enough people are weak minded enough to be led around by the nose, told what to think by their masters, their power over their members will continue to grow.

When we see simple minded acceptance of obvious distortion, such as the "Rinehart, African Wages" farce, it`s easy to see how certain people can be so easily manipulated, programmed. It`s impossible to have a conversation with someone so dumb, they aren`t capable of discussing reality, in mature and honest way.

The ALP spin, that they lost the election because of disunity, is another delusional diversion. They lost the election, because the PM was a pig, because of the arrogant, dishonest BS that they tried to feed us, and because they were completely incompetent. A union lawyer, has no grounding in constructive skills. A union lawyer, only needs to be an expert in corruption, and internal power play and backstabbing.

 

The market drives the housing bubble CD, and the market is driven by wage rises that don`t effectively make anyone any better off. Other high impact factors on rising house prices are, over regulation of the development and construction industries, but hey, that`s what you get when you over regulate to idiot proof anything. Australia`s over regulation "industry", has now grown into a huge, parasite "industry".

 

The problem with the housing market goes back to when someone had the bright idea that ordinary people could become wealthy by going into debt to buy a house, sell it at a profit, go into debt to buy another house at a higher price, sell it for a bigger profit, go into debt to buy two houses....and so on. Houses ceased to become shelter and became commodities. It has nothing to do with wage levels.

 

All true, but I would have to say that the disunity amongst the party clearly demonstrated the arrogance and incompetence of this current Labor party. The fact that they will need to go against the base of the party (the Unions) to progress the country while welfare is dragging the economy into irreversible slide (unless the Unions work to progress the nation rather than self-interest) also creates the major problems of division within the party ranks. I do not envy the job the next ALP leader will have to make this party a great driving force for Australia.

BUT, I do agree that the disunity was not a major cause but more of a symptom of the problems within the party.

On a side note, many complain that Australia is moving toward a US style electoral system and believe it should be avoided. This current system of the ALP (you know those party reforms) are clearly more closely representative of a US style of party politics than anything introduced before. The problem I see now is that this new party electoral system for leader is not conducive for reform rather more selective to put makeup on the same old faces with far more difficulty to introduce better reforms. I am of the belief that this new system will be detrimental to the ALP rather than beneficial but that is my opinion and may stand to be corrected.

 

Well not entirely true, wage levels do have to account for the size of debt being created. The major problem is now that many self-funded superannuation programs have invested into the housing industry to further grow the bubble.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/rese...et-new-property-debt-trap-20130925-2uei4.html

So wages are a major problem just not the cause. The next will be that wage increases will be demanded to meet the currently rising housing prices further creating a bubble (speculation)...

 

Are you seriously suggesting a persons wages don’t effect or reflect their ability to repay home loans or buy homes? When bank interest rates rise. Wouldn't that indicate a persons wages also have to increase to keep pace with their housing repayments? When the price of homes keep increasing, don't wages have to rising so people can afford to buying the homes? Do you see the "catch 22" now? The market IS the housing bubble.

 

It's not that simple, some push the point that increasing wages cause increasing prices, others see increasing prices causing increasing wages.

I see it as the culmination of the Capitalist system. We have outlawed pyramid schemes because they have a fundamental error, an enormous number who invest in pyramid schemes will receive nothing back, they are on the bottom and unless more people come along, there is no one to pass the baton on to so they can start receiving their share.

Capitalism is the mother of all pyramid schemes, every business is a pyramid scheme, every business has a handful at the top making a fortune, whilst those that are on the lower rungs will most probably never get that far up the tree.

Information is our biggest killer, enlightenment, disclosure etc. Once the wealthy were not as wealthy as they are now, workers drove second hand cars or cheap cars, they lived in small fibro cottages sometimes families of 10 plus living in a 2 or 3 bedroom cottage in the burbs.

Speaking for Sydney, a house in Redfern, Waterloo, Alexandria, Glebe, Balmain could be snatched up for a few hundred thousand, that was only 30 years ago. The guy across the road in Redfern here bought a terrace for 85K only 25 years ago, today it is worth around a million dollars and houses in Zetland are selling for around 1.5 Million now.

Once people were happy to start with a small cottage and if lucky, work there way up, today a young couple is looking at a 3 or 4 bedroom home, they want a car each, a widescreen TV in the dining room, family room, lounge room and bedroom. Once everyone was happy to pack a picnic and load the kids into the station wagon and go to the local pool for a Saturday afternoon. Today most want an in ground pool at home, they build home theatres, elaborate entertaining areas etc.

Once a home was shelter, a place where you could bash your wife, send your kids to their room, grab a coldy out of the frig, and watch the news on the only TV, usually in the kitchen or lounge room. Today a house is a status symbol, flooded in lights so we can see how well off you are, it is all inclusive, you don't have to leave your bedroom to have a leak, where once it was grab a torch, go down the back yard and check the seat for redbacks.

When the boom started most of our parents owned or nearly owned the little 2 bedroom fibro cottage, so we persuaded them to go to a retirement village, sell up and move into a small flat, or we sold their home, capiatalised on our investment, built a granny flat out the back for mum and or dad, bought an investment property and negative geared it. Negative gearing will only work while home prices are rising, you must be able to sell it at a significant price to come out in front. Second mortgages on under capitalised homes were sort out by property developers and investment companies, get the unused capital on your home, buy a new car, a pool, renovate, take a holiday or buy an investment property.

Materialism grew rapidly, a home once purchased for around 100K was now worth 10 times that, people were taking out stupid second mortgages to live a more affluent lifestyle. As prices rose, rental prices also rose to cover the cost of the housing boom, remember these big mortgages do need to be paid back. Women entered the workforce now in droves to help cover the rising debts, 2 income families became the norm rather than the exception, kids stayed at home longer as they couldn't afford to move, so some homes had 3 or 4 fairly significant incomes whilst others, the less educated, those who didn't get a good kick start in life, those who just want to earn a little and enjoy their lives now became the poor, depending more and more on welfare.

Once in country towns across Australia there was itinerant work, cotton chipping, wheat harvesting etc. Miners walked down the shafts or road in wagons carrying picks and shovels. Today aerial spraying of weeds, harvesters, mechanisation etc has removed all the menial labour from the rural sector. Our property in the Hunter valley has a workers cottage attached to the Large house. Once it housed 2 or 3 workers, who dug potatoes, forked hay onto wagons and hand chipped weeds. They received a small wage, their keep and every one was happy. Then my grandfather bought a potato digger, sprayers etc and a hay baler. Itinerant work ceased, the workers cottage became a store room and the farm which seasonally employed between 3 and 20 workers was now just myself, dad and fardy.

As time went on I saw that even my future was not going to be good, regulation, the demand for cheaper, fresher, refrigerated milk, tomatoes that are perfectly shaped, unblemished fruit etc lead to the growth of the Agricultural business and the demise of most small family farms.

This caused an influx of people from rural areas to the larger centres and in particular, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane which again put pressure on house prices and rental properties. Many could not get work and became the "Fringe Dwellers", and so our welfare class of people grew.

Increases in the greed of the now diminishing numbers of workers, the greed at the corporate level and the total lack of empathy for those less fortunate, that is either had a better spoon in their mouths when born, got a lucky break, was in the right place at the right time, were willing to become work a holics etc gave us the "New Working Class", the blue collar workers with a $50k boat, an $80k Commodore, taking an annual holiday in Bali.

Blue collar workers were now earning and living very much closer to the wealthy, so they increased their incomes to what I call obscene levels.

So what is my solution, my answer? .... Nothing, it will implode, it will destroy itself. Neanderthal man lived on earth for around (from memory) 50, 000 years. Modern man has been around approx 5,000 years. In that time we have conquered every inch of earth just about, raped the ground of just about every mineral and resource, polluted our air, water and land.

Capitalism is by it's very being, doomed to fail, one day, and one day soon there will be no more room at the top, those on the bottom will have no where to go, those that have fallen off will get angry. Capitalism will have one last dying gasp (we are at that point now, we make things worth money, movies, music, internet companies, sports. Nothing concrete, no value adding, no real purpose in progressing mankind, but extremely lucrative industries all of a sudden.

Where once we explored, sought and found resources, we now have to make resources, a programmer can write a few lines of the right code at the right time, load it on the internet and get a million downloads at $1.99. Instant riches and we all want our share.

Capitalism is doomed, long live humanitarianism, if we don't start looking there, looking at a better life not a wealthier one, then we better start packing for our journey to our nearest habitable planet, because it is a few thousand year journey away.

 

I am not sure who you are pointing to here, But that is what I was saying. The issue of wages is not creating the problem but is part of the problem...

 

Yes I think we all see that, it's the cat chasing it's tail, so what do you suggest, the government reclaim property, sell it then cheaper, or do we freeze wages sending all those who, maybe foolishly invested in the property market broke as house prices crash because no one can afford them. The problem is Capitalism and people have been predicting this for decades, ffs bite the bullet and admit that capitalism has a fatal floor, lets look at an alternate system.

 

Actually both are of the same issue, it is call the wage, price spiral... However, no matter how complicated you want to make the issue, it is just that simple. The housing bubble becomes apparent when the market is flooded by buyers, simple as that. This demand is being boosted by a trillion dollar industry superannuation (yes an industry). The fact that this is currently forcing prices out of the family units range makes the people push for higher wages further creating more potential purchases...

Complain about capitalism all you want, but stop trying to make the problem more technical than it is. The solutions are often far more complicated than the simple problem...

 

and ... I agree with everything you say, oh yes I definitely agree

But the problem isn't simple either, and no one wants to know about it.

 

Yes the problem is simple, easy to understand and completely understandable. Everybody would like to believe they can own the roof over their head and the gound under there feet, when the people want to make their life easier by investing into that menality they increase the inability for the ordinary person to be able to own their own shelter without increases to incomes to compensate for the fact they are unable to procure the same amount of finance as an investor unit... THAT IS SIMPLE.

To prevent the speculation in the housing market, pushing the pricing outside the ordinary family unit is extremely complicated... you could either legislate or regulate the industry. How do you do that without detrimentally affecting your economy by removing investment into it???

 

Yes you are correct, it can be simply put, easy to write down in a few paragraphs, but the problem is much deeper, it's about greed, it's about envy, it's about everyone wanting a share of the pie. It won't happen until we are willing to take a smaller portion, why do we want legislation to solve a problem we all know exists, but don't want to do what needs to be done. We can regulate, but where and when do we stop, what happened to Laissez faire, the basis of Capitalism, what you are talking about is socialism, but the brand of socialism we have today is just regulated Capitalism.

We need to throw our labels into the bin, no Capitalism, no Socialism and no Communism. We need humanitarianism with the quality of life for EVERYONE as the goal, not amassed wealth.

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Try this word, benevolent.

 

We have a massive problem in Australia with this housing bubble that has been uncontrollably expanding for decades.

We have 16sq 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom and 1 garage homes in the suburbs of major capital cities with $600K plus price tags. The only people left in these areas to buy these ridiculously over priced homes are mum & dad factory workers or labourers.

So what happens. To sell these ridiculously over priced homes, they keep increasing mum & dads wages to pay for these homes. But as a consequence, mum & dads wages are now so ridiculously high, mum & dads employers cannot longer compete at an international level.

These manufacturing businesses advocate Australian manual labour is too high, and mum & dad now have to lose their jobs, and they have to move overseas to become competitive.

Meanwhile, Australia has lost another manufacturing business, and more Australian’s are out of work; thanks to greedy foreign banks manipulating an uncontrollable housing bubble.

I believe its time the whole building industry was regulated.

 

Also, as the worlds population grows, the dirt under our feet doesn't, it shrinks relatively, smaller portions of pie, which we are now seeing, but the price of the pie is still increasing.

 

You have used "WE" twice, but you're not an Aussie are you, don't you mean "YOU" (us)

 

Yes very altruistic for people to simply decide to share such instead of advancing themselves. Unfortunately the problem lays in the understanding of one should do to advance themselves and why should one who puts their blood and sweat into advancing their own situation be held to the same level as those who sit on the arses and expect the same return for no input???

The point of legislation or regulation is just that, socialism... So the solution is far more complicated than the problem... Greed goes both ways...

Do you suggest that no matter what the contribution to the community everybody should have equality??? Shouldn't those who put their nose to the grind stone be rewarded for their effort??? Should people be elevated to the same level simply for the humanity point where the incentive for creation is??? Rhetoric of how one should look to the world is marvellous but it ignores the contribution of many who advance themselves over and above those who want the easy life given to them...

 

Yes, the decreasing of the pie is causing the increases in prices. I am not sure if you are being obtuse here or genuinely believe this should not be the case...

This however, does not detract from the fact that people still want everything and will try to achieve it at the expense of the nation. Thus this problem as you see it will continue until a major crash occurs. Have you considered for one instant that Governments of the day continue to perpetuate this problem???

 

I think everyone deserves a home, there are a lot of other things to reward hard work, holidays, more expensive cars, easier work conditions.

In my little world of a dozen people, 2 are born to professional parents, get a higher education, private schooling a big inheritance. 4 are born into blue collar families, they take up Dad's trade. 5 work at the supermarket, stacking shelves, mopping spilt milk, operating checkouts. One cannot get a job, my world has only 11 positions, it used to have 12 but the supermarket has installed an automatic self serve checkout and one position was lost.

Who is the MOST important person, who contributes the most, could the professionals be as good at their jobs if they had to farm their own food, bring it home, cook it, take the garbage to a refuse point. Service their own car etc etc. The professional NEEDS the workers MORE than the workers need to proffessional. I can grow vegetables and kill my own meat, I can fix most of my health issues, I may die a little younger however. I know doctors that have never seen a vegetable plant, wouldn't know the inside of a supermarket if it bit them on the bum, yes they would be smart, professional, educated and very hungry. But wait, the can pull up in their Lotus, on the way to dinner at a hundred dollars a head, buy a bottle of Moey at around $400 dollars a bottle, from a guy earning around $700 per week gross. He pays $450 a week for renting one of the doctors rental properties, $200 per week for food and clothes from the stores the doctor has invested in for his retirement, so he takes the $100 he has left and gets drunk with his mates.

They will get liver damage probably so it's off to the doctor who charges twice the scheduled fee.

 

How bloody ridiculous is it: it takes someone 30 years to repay $600K for something that takes 2 months to build.

 

OH yes I have considered it, I have just witnessed it first hand, the government changed because we wanted more from it. We wanted a nice blue number at the bottom of the spreadsheet, not a red one, we have those of our own buying imported goods on credit. We wanted the boats stopped, don't want 10, 000 people flooding our welfare system, we have a half million on it already, that's a roughly a 0.5% increase, woe is me. We didn't vote in the most socially responsible government, we didn't vote in fiscal control, we voted for a "few dollars more" in our hip pockets and a sensationalist scare campaign of the carbon tax and boat people.

Even though the problem si our obscene use of resources and after all, 95% of Australians are migrants, boat people, who came here for a better life, more money, more freedom. Financial refugees or their decendants are the majority of Australians.

 

I suppose the banking introduced term: “negative gearing” is creating equal opportunity for everyone to own their own home, or it just giving some people the opportunity to have more power and influence over a certain industry?

 

All cost, but it is your assumption that all should be able to achieve such rewards, due to the fact of GREED...

At a cost to themselves...

I assume educated at public education... from the government pockets which is funded by the tax and expenditure of the professionals as majority and the workers at a lesser extent... This is where welfare expectant people consider that ALL education should be equivalent regardless of who pays, as long as it is not them...

Great you have a little under 10% unemployment...

So, it is your assumption that Professionals should be discriminated against because you do not realise their value???

Really??? I wonder how you would fix your own health issues if it was not for the professionals who created the medicines you would use to FIX your own health issues??? I would suggest you could not survive very long if you where forced to live a self sustaining life...

Stupidly that applies to non-professional people as well. I know the welfare recipients who have no idea where anything in the supermarket comes from... whoopee do...

And you expect he should be awarded the same as the doctor who spent several more years in education learning how to FIX this blokes liver and kidney problems, create the medications to treat such problems and give this person some semblance of life he breezes through living up with his mates instead of working to improve his place??? Sounds wonderful

But hey, you don't need the doctor, you said so previously...

Isn't it funny, that the professional people who work hard for years way and above the people who want expect the same rewards for simply wanting to breeze through life, without any input...

Yes, degrading the efforts of others simply to promote your own opinion is a little despicable actually...

The one thing you totally disregard Is the fact that ALL in Australia has the opportunity to work hard and become professional… BUT according to the assumption of humanitarian this should be offered to all, not just those who work for it…

 

There is nothing wrong with rewarding individuals for hard work, but is there a reason why foreign owned banks should be the ones deciding the rewards, and who gets rewarded, by manipulating interest rates and housing prices by creating a housing bubble.