Elizabeth Warren releases sweeping student debt cancellation and free college plan

Will your overexaggeration here, ever help anything?

I would bet that a MathEngrSci degree, today, prepares students for far far more than what any of our parents were doing straight out of high school. When our parents left high school, the world was not this complex with technologies.

 

That's nice. These aren't the folks I was referring to. If you look, I replied to a post claiming that the value of a degree is that it makes makes an employer feel one is intelligent and able to get through something.

 

Easy to spend other people's money, isn't it?

Why should people pay MORE money for people to receive additional education above and beyond the basic 12? Will it also pay for trade schools for those not college inclined? What benefit does a liberal arts degree provide to society economically? Shall we restrict payment to those who hold a 3.5 grade average only, or shall we also pay for those who don't show up in class sober? What if they don't graduate at all? Why should other people pay for someone who flunks out?

Inquiring minds, and all that.

 

the dimwit is merely 'vote buying', thinking every college kid will blindly vote for her... it'll prolly work because, afterall, college kids are

 

Perhaps it was easier for you than most, or was easier back then than now, or both?

 

It's a bit premature and unlikely to work for that. She has to get through the primary process yet, and other candidates can address college tuition and loans well enough to counter Warren.

What's really sad here is viewing good policy ideas this way and therefore not considering them. It's the same as what has been happening with health care. We can't have a modern health care system and take care of our own citizenry because of partisan rhetoric and the cynical attitude it engenders among the general populace.

 

Agreed, the money should be paid back. I would just have the nation pick up some of the interest.
Going forward we can make public colleges more affordable by going more online. I understand that some work in technical fields have to be collaborative, But business, Humanities, education fully 1/2 of the courses could be taken on line and you only attend for one semester per year and the other you do online. Also public U and colleges go 3 semesters of 15 week and go for three years. If you come from a bottom 25% high school, you get one year tuition free for remedial work. There are many things to make college more affordable.

 

And when tuition's skyrocket even more under her plan what then? We have seen HUGE increases in the cost of tutitions as more government money and guaranteed loans are tossed into the mix from $24.8 billion in the 1995-96 school year to $93 billion in 2017-18. 58% since 1998 alone.

"Shortly after Valentine’s Day in 1987, Education Secretary William J. Bennett wrote a now-famous op-ed in The New York Times titled “Our Greedy Colleges.” In it, he suggested that “increases in financial aid in recent years have enabled colleges and universities blithely to raise their tuitions, confident that federal loan subsidies would help cushion the increase.”

This observation became known as the “Bennett Hypothesis.” As the years go by, it seems more apt to call it the Bennett truism....


.....In fact, a growing body of literature has already shown that federal subsidies have this tendency to push tuition prices higher.

In one study, researchers Grey Gordon and Aaron Hedlund found that raising subsidized loan limits led to a 102% increase in tuition from 1987 to 2010. Absent that additional federal money, the authors estimate tuition would have only gone up by 16% on net.

Another study by David O. Lucca, Taylor Nadauld, and Karen Shen of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found additional evidence of the Bennett Hypothesis at play. The authors found that credit expansion (increasing subsidized federal student loans) leads to a tuition increase of 60 cents for every additional dollar of subsidized federal loans. Their conclusion bluntly states:

… a credit expansion will raise tuition paid by all students and not only by those at the federal loan caps because of pecuniary demand externalities. Such pricing externalities are often conjectured in the context of the effects of expanded subprime borrowing on housing prices leading up to the financial crisis, and our study can be seen as complementary evidence in the student loan market."

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/04...NUzNrYWNvc1hjck1icEVpTGJDMExpWk9xa1wvWTEifQ==

 

Maybe he went to a state school and not a private more expensive school. Maybe he commuted at home rather than having the college experience of dorm life and being free from parents. Maybe he stood at home after grad and paid down his debt while still be treated like a kid by his parents. Maybe he did his first two years at a community college? Maybe he took a path that lead to a more in demand better paying field, which required more work in college.

Just because billy or sue wanted to go away to a private college to be an english major or gender studies, or anthropology, you know something interesting that if you look on Indeed you don't see one job being posted and now we are asked to bail them out of $50-$125,000 your nuts.

My oldest went to a local but out of state U for Computer engineering. He wanted to go to Syracuse and be a sports broadcaster. He went to the local Community college for the first two years, for free due to his grades and a national science foundation scholarship to get kids into engineering. The last two years was $17,000 a year and he commuted, He graduated owing 28,000 and stood at home and paid it off in a year. And then flew the coop.

He is now making 6 figures and bought a 275,000 home at age 27. But still wishes he went to syracuse although he realizes he made the right choice.

 

yeah boo ****ing hoo. i guess i didn’t have a $1000 iphone to pay for.

 

yes, republicans like to spend it on war, democrats like to spend it raising the people of this country up

republicans nation-build in IRAQ, Democrats prefer to nation-build at home

 

I always thought that I was in that progressive wheelhouse in my politics. I think the rich don't pay their fair share of the burden and the middle 75,000- 250,000 pay to much. I'm in favor of food stamps, and housing assistance to our bottom 10%, I think medicare for all as a single payer option is the best solution to our access to healthcare problem.

But I can't reconcile my beliefs in just bailing out a million young kids that did something stupid and went to private schools and owe $100,000 getting degrees in something that has no economic demand.

 

Crap- the dems are just as war happy as the repubs. they take the same money as the repubs do. Tulsi is the only candidate that is anti-war

 

I want my $30K + interest that I've already paid, when can I expect the check? Even a first year law student can argue the Equal Protection Clause.

 

Yes. That is exactly what a degree does. Which was my entire point.

Every employer or business owner, with a record of any livelihood success, does fully understand how difficult it is to get a bachelor's degree from an accredited university or college in the USA. Especially, if you are not wealthy. Getting a real bachelors' degree takes unprecedented, discipline, and most-notably from prestigious schools with those insane graduation requirements and course specifications.

Therefore if it tells employers, nothing else, the degree certainly tells them that you have the discipline to get through intense-training or difficult-projects that you are assigned to.

The American college experience is meant to stir up, intelligence, and innovation in the minds of students. So Elizabeth Warren is correct here, conceptually, if we want to remain as the world's most powerful nation then we need the entire population to become as educated as possible. That reality should make tuition free.

 

No kidding it was your point.
I was restating it.

Those ain't science and engineering jobs.
They're jobs that their parents did without wasting four years of their life studying basket weaving, forgoing earnings while simultaneously accumulating huge sums of debt

 

FTR, I don't agree with Warren and think she's obviously pandering to "buy" votes. I graduated from college and paid off my student loans (which weren't a lot) before the 2008 recession hit. In the aftermath of the recession, I knew people who got suckered in by the whole "go back to school" bandwagon and were given bad advice by the "financial advisers" at the school they attended. One guy I worked with owed 60 grand for an associate's degree. The loans for that should never have been approved, given the realities of the job market in that area of the country. Why don't you think the lenders should have any personal responsibility? No one forced them to make a loan without checking to see if it was a reasonable investment. The government should not be complicit in loan sharking.

 

I like Senator Warren's plan. I hope it happens.

 

Okay here is an idea there are two issues the debt in play and the cost of public education we agree on that so here is my fixes a couple simple measures.

1. Clear the debt as planned, fine, one big clearing of some debt.

2. Add a lot more vocational education in High School and through other means like Apprenticeships and maybe certifications in skills one can keep a record of these demonstrated many ways work experience evaluation, courses of study, apprenticing as examples these maintained by maybe private companies who do the work. Thi would tie into all levels of education over 8th grade.

3. Now for loans I would split these to 'useful majors' and 'boutique majors' the former would be those useful to society in clear ways STEM, business, pre-professional school and well you get the idea these would be given under loans with no interest. Boutique majors liberal arts, art, theater, music gender studies would get NO LOANS at all they could add one as a second major or a minor but not a major (maybe if a teaching credential is issued one could argue for a major in art or something though). ROTC would get majors covered if a service academy offers it so in that case Philosophy could be a major West Point has that leaving that to the branch of the armed forces they are paying the bill and the G.I. Bill since its an earned benefit. Other than that scholarships of all kinds and private loans would need to cover them. Noting I don't mind if you study something however the major is what you get the loan on and if you switch to something else 'boutique only' a loan will move to a high interest loan (12% maybe) upon graduation and the same student loan rules apply. I would say you could go for a year without declaring a major however on the zero interest loan to be fair we are talking virtual children here.

4. Fix the amount of loan money to the average national cost of a public school education to including housing, books, reasonable fees and meals and essentials only no with a COLA fixed to inflation on the amount you could add 15% over this to cover some expenses being higher.

5. Last thing continuing education I propose workers get a percentage of their salaries as a employer benefit ,part time to full time, with the employee matching it and the government matching the combined amount per year for continuing education. Example your a nurse earning per year $50,000 this might be say 2% for the employer if the nurse puts in 2% of her salary and that would be $2,000 then the government match would double to $4,000. This could cover more classes, saved to cover going for a higher level degree and I would let spouses and children benefit. EXAMPLE ONLY

6. Tie graduate employment or acceptance into professional schools etc. to the ability of a school to get loans.

But you give a free tuition education people will go and schools with grow to meet the needs softening degrees and options so any Joe can get a degree even if it won't lead to a job as long as they will absorb the other costs and it will turn college into high school. A skin in the game makes the education more valued and further a degree to me needs to be useful or its a waste on taxpayers who back the loans. College is expensive and okay should be perhaps but you go to school you better leave employable in a field your studying for or need a college degree for.

 

If we got rid of the illegals there would be more low skilled jobs at higher wages.

And if we required our high schools to actually educate their students they could handle many of the jobs that require college these days.

 

Re: 2. Maybe we could implement that the way the Germans do, with different school types/tracks that include vocational qualification in close cooperation with industry and craftsmen, as well as university preparation. They actually qualify students for universities at a type of high school called a Gymnasium, not to be confused with English gymnasium (odd, I know). They have all sorts of vocational high schools and vocational training programs as an alternative to that, so not everyone gets shoved right into a university to learn a bunch of stuff they don't necessarily need. In short, more specialization beginning around middle school to high school might be just the ticket to making our school system more efficient and effective at educating students to go on to be successful. Personally, I drifted through high school and colleges without a plan. That cost me a lot and is a fault I share with my folks and my schools. I would like to see other students avoid that mistake for their sake and the good of the country.

 

Sure, sure and Fauxcahontas is pure American Indian also.....lolz indeed!

 

If you have no interest in the topic and aren't going to make any effort to contribute, why comment at all?

 

Is an interest free government loan program something which is discussed? This is what we have in Australia.

 

Agreed, but the only thing is now companies don't hire you for life. They don't want to pay for your education training skill development. My father worked for one company after WW2 until the day he died. I worked for 4 companies, my last job the 3/4s of the engineers turned over every 4 years.

When I got our of the service I had a factory job, things got slow one year they had us paint the factory so they didn't lay you off. MY brother in law still worked there 30 years later, he was getting laid off for two days every month. Employers and employees just don't have that dynamic anymore