Military Quietly Prepares for a Last Resort: War With North Korea

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by trucker, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    No we won't. Even if we were to pretend that Russians have any significant military power in the region, neither of those countries are likely to risk major war over Kim's regime. Even if they were, America and Japan would win, especially if we were the first to strike.
     
  2. Cornergas

    Cornergas Active Member

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    China and Russia will probably have a lot to sayabout it if the chicken sh.t USA try to bomb NK.....try putting your troops on theground there...they will run for the rescue ships just like they did in 1950 and in Viet Nam a few years later...not so brave when eyeball to eyeball with the other side.
     
  3. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Right because America looks soooo unified as a nation.

    FFS.

    America is defintely a stable country and defintely a nation. But you will find most countries are.
    Sorry, but that is not exceptional at all. It is normal.

    You mentioned Japan, I'll give you better example of a more stable and socially cohesive society. Perhaps the ultimate nationalist one on the the planet.
    North Korea.

    Do you think Kim is as domestically unpopular as Trump, Clinton, Bush or Obama? LMAO. Not even Shinzo Abe.
    Is this really the model you wish to emulate. Really, really?

    I love Japan. I will become Japanese. Most people can't stand that kind of unity.
    Most of us aspire to liberty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  4. Brexx

    Brexx Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it happening either, and it shouldn't.
     
  5. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Wow, heard that before.

    You will get arse raped in the skies, Russia and China have already deployed their AA defences which are superior to your air-forces in every way.
    We don't have to imagine what they will do, they have already done it. What risk a war with America? America can't shoot back directly because they are scared.

    Last time, both Russia and China got directly involved and America just sucked it up and pretty soon gave in. Russia and China survived entirely un-nuked and undefeated.

    Add to this that they gave mutual defence pacts with Korea and have repeatedly stated their intentions to honour it, and really you seem rather fanciful in your estimations to me.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  6. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Put simply, we are.

    Again, simply untrue. From Turkey to Kazakhstan to the United Kingdom, tons of countries are politically on the edge as a result of distinct identity groups. Turks may pretend that Kurds can be fully Turkish, but under the surface there will always be that extra step that a Kurd cannot take. There will come a time when the Russian upper classes of Kazakhstan learn a harsh truth about ethnicity and national identity.

    North Korea, I can assure you, is on the edge of breaking. No entity can live in such a pressure cooker without cracks appearing under the surface. At least a dozen top military officials have seriously weighed the merits of an internal coup, as do Chinese intelligence operatives involved in the country.

    North Korea is not a nation at all, it's a ghost of a bygone era. One day Korea will be Korea, and the South will be the political center of that unified country.

    I have no idea. I know that it doesn't matter nearly as much as you think it does. Every American president is the Antichrist to half of the country, it's part of our culture. From the very beginning our republic was marred by infighting between dissenting camps. Surely European conservatives of the early 19th Century pointed to the American Republic as a disaster, of squabbling camps going nowhere. Each half of the country accused the other half of treason, and each lead the country into wars the other found abhorrent.
     
  7. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    While my opinions are brilliant, it's rare for them to be wholly original.

    If you're right we won't attack. I don't fully understand the veracity of weapons system held by each side. But I do understand basic game theory considerations. During the Cold War some in American leadership spoke of leaving the red button "unplugged." Few believed that if the Soviets invaded Western Europe the United States would respond with nuclear war. That is precisely why the French were so adamant about creating their own nuclear arsenal.

    It was important that the Soviets be sufficiently scared, but I for one doubt that the Americans would've made that choice. I doubt, too, that the Chinese and Russians will risk open war over the North Korean question.

    Certainly the threat of Russian and Chinese intervention weighs heavily on the minds of our leadership. I don't think it's the primary driver in our decision making, as they understand, as I do, that the Russians and Chinese will not directly confront American forces over NK.

    Certainly, but things are quite different now. The ability to pour bodies over the border won't suffice anymore. Conventional war is, indeed, much too fast. The only way they could stop us in time is to get directly involved with their own military using their own armaments. They won't.

    If the United States and China came to clashes over the matter it would be on accident. The idea of an American-Russian war in the Far East is laughable.
     
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  8. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we do understand the veracity of the weapons systems on both sides. In particular we have no idea of NK's AA systems.
    We have no idea of their numbers or positioning. It's an intelligence blindspot.
    It's really rather difficult to plan an air campaign in the absence of that information.

    They will directly get involved with their own armaments. They have already deployed them.
    The whole country is currently covered by Russian defence systems, based in Russia.

    Russian air forces flew against American air forces in the Korean war. And won. They are the ones laughing.

    The key problem with your argument is that it assumes that the Russians won't fight the Americans, but seems to over look that the exact same logic applies equally to the Americans.
    So all the Russians have to do is invade and America is blocked from military action by their presence. Same goes for the Chinese.
    Both are able to deploy to NK faster than America and have recently demonstrated their willingness and response speed.
    Russians are the fastest rapid deployment forces of them all. They beat us every time.

    So while I think it is credible that America will engage in limited strikes vs North Korea, I also think it is credible that Russian and Chinese SAMS will be involved in it's defence. Shooting down cruise missiles for example.

    Beyond that I don't think America has the (conventional) muscle for the job and I don't think Soeul will survive any attempt to use overwhelming force. Defeating the entire object of any attack in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  9. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    I was not talking about the stability the US enjoys at home: I was rather talking about the de-stabilizing effect the US have on the international scene.
     
  10. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Not surprising that the geopolitical actor with the widest range of viable options acts the most, and it's not surprising that the actor acting the most is the most destabilizing.

    We could make a dozen mistakes like 2003 Iraq and come out little worse for the wear. History is cruel and unjust. I am under no illusions, my country is a thrashing monster deep in the Atlantic. This monster will continue to thrash for the foreseeable future.
     
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  11. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    Yes, I hear the US is now going after IS in Syria (like 'the Russians couldn't crack it, but the US can!' :roll: Bit like you thought you could crack the Talibs in Afghanistan when the Russians couldn't, and you're still there trying to do it? lol ). When is your Pentagon going to get the message that they always **** up wherever they send your military, so best not to keep on interfering?
     
  12. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I think it might be only America and Japan

    The Comonwealth countries who used to be pur friends are not so much anymore

    And the germans might support north korea
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  13. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Russian pilots in the MIG-15 had early success till the F86 arrived anf then it was a different story

    Not that what happened then is any gurantee of what will happen now

    North Korea, russia, china, iran and germany might be too much for America to handle all at the same time
     
  14. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    No one is threatening NK, they use that lie to keep the people under control. We talk tough when they make threats. If they stopped their nuclear weapons program and stopped threatening SK they would be left alone. The west didn't like the Warsaw pack either but didn't want to see them covered in nuclear fallout, they wanted them freed. Same goes for NK, I for one would like a better future for their people and getting rid of their war mongering dictatorship would be a start. If they joined with SK, SK would most likely run into greater issues than W Germany had after the reunification. China will not help, they don't want an economic powerhouse on their border, one that could compete with them in a few years. They also like having a thorn in the US side and they surely don't want a country on their border with US bases.
     
  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    What china wants is total domination of asia

    Historically korea has always been a vassel state under china but briefly a province of japan

    If the US is forced out of south korea we may not stop retreating till we reach hawaii
     
  16. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    And to stay would come across as imperialism wouldn't it? Best to make an arrangement with South Korea I'd have thought.
     
  17. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Thats up to the south koreans

    We will stay as long as they want us there

    Its already worked out with them
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  18. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    Fine. But if it all settles down between N and S I'd suggest that the US should call a halt to the annual military exercises?
     
  19. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    This is just a ruse by kim who is stalling for time

    Calling off the joint US S Korean military exercises would be a big mistake because it weakens the conventionsl military deterrent that has ensured the peace since 1953
     
  20. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    I suspect you mean 'has ensured the peace until KJU took over the reins.'? He obviously looks at it as provocation.
     
  21. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    No

    Military might has kept the peace since 1953 because force is all the NKs understand

    Kim may be smarter than most western liberals

    He knows that not having joint military exercises betwwen S Korea and the US is a force multiplier for him
     
  22. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    Fair point. But as you say - provided SK wants you there. If it wants you gone it's a very different matter.
     
  23. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Some liberals actually believe the US is occupying S Korea against its will and thats utter bullshit
     
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  24. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    Agree that. But diplomacy is on the move now, so I think we should see how it goes. Reunification has worked in Germany?
     
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    This will not lead to reunification unless the government of south korea steps down

    Kim will never share power with anyone
     
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