Restaurant Recession Hits NYC Following $15 Minimum Wage

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ProgressivePower, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    It is still a sharp increase over what it was...
     
  2. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Besides, simply raising the minimum hourly wage an employer must pay, does not necessarily translate into the employees working a 40 hour work week. I think that we are seeing the opposite. Fewer people are being hired, and those who do work are burdened with performing more tasks per shift, working fewer hours, and automation will be replacing employees.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  3. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Get skills.
    Problem solved.

    Cant get skills? Auto purge your gene line
     
  4. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One where you can at least afford a place to stay and something to eat.
     
  5. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Sure there would be wage reductions, I never said there wouldn't be. And I have based on economics as the majority of studies prove that minimum wage hikes, increase unemployment. The majority of the schools of economics also agree with this. Even the majority of labour economists agree. To argue that the law of supply and demand, does not apply to labor, is a very astounding claim.
     
  6. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! Restaurant owners have relegated the payment of their employees to the customers, by way of tips. They are now having to be responsible for paying decent wages, and their decision has been to - again - pass that on to their customers through higher prices.
     
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  7. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    That's false. The idea of a consensus goes back to Brown, Gilroy and Kohen surveys. That has heen rejected for some time. The last 2 meta-analysis do differ. One finds no significant effects; the other highlights positive effects.

    Also wrong. You've also misrepresented what I said. I referred directly to supply and demand. If a firm faces an upward sloping labour supply then it has monopsonistic power. That is delivered with job search analysis. Sounds like you need to brush up on your economics!
     
  8. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Not true, David Neumark,his studies and other studies, have shown significant job losses following minimum wage increases.

    https://www.frbsf.org/economic-rese...cember/effects-of-minimum-wage-on-employment/

    'If we instead use the larger 16–24 age group and apply the smaller elasticity to reflect that a smaller share of this group is affected, the crude estimate of missing jobs rises to about 75,600. Moreover, if some very low-skilled older adults also are affected (as suggested by Clemens and Wither 2014), the number could easily be twice as high, although there is much less evidence on older workers.'

    Essentially upwards of 100,000-200,000 jobs nationally.

    Also from Neumark's study in 07 (https://www.nber.org/papers/w12663.pdf) concludes that for every 10 percent increase in the minimum wage, low-skilled unemployment increases by 8 percent. His results also indicate that states fully affected by a $7.25 federal minimum wage will see young minority unemployment rates increase by as much as 15.6 percent.

    (https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER Working Paper.pdf) This study found that in Seattle, increasing the minimum wage to $13 per hour lowered income of low-wage workers by $125 per month, due to the resulting reduction in hours worked, as industries made changes to make their businesses less labor intensive.

    And yes, the majority of labour economists do agree, minimum wage hikes, increase unemployment.

    Majority of Labor Economists Believe Minimum Wage Hikes Cause Unemployment

    Negative Effects Of Minimum Wage Hikes Fall Disproportionately On The Low-Skilled

    (https://www.epionline.org/release/m...elieve-minimum-wage-hikes-cause-unemployment/)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  9. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The law of supply and demand is interesting
    What turns out to be true is that when their are a lot of low wage jobs available..... illegal immigrants come here to fill these jobs.... And if Americans fill these low wage jobs, their income must be supplemented by government programs because these jobs do not provide a living wage

    Do you think people can live on 1000 per month in New York City?

    The burden of higher wages falls upon customers who may reduce their consumption of higher cost meals.... and maybe grab a hot dog instead

    Do you expect that 15 per hour pay for dish washers will result in higher American unemployment?
     
  10. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Well judging from what's going on in NYC right now yes, there will be higher unemployment and this study found that in Seattle, increasing the minimum wage to $13 per hour lowered income of low-wage workers by $125 per month. ((https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER Working Paper.pdf)

    High cost of living in NYC, is due to high regulation and rent control.
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Everything I typed was fact. Neumark's findings are an outlier. Let's go through it again and see a genuine attempt at critique...

    FACT 1: Meta analysis confirms Card and Krueger's findings. Try Doucouliagos and Stanley (2009, Publication Selection Bias in Minimum Wage Research? A Meta-Regression Analysis, British Journal of Industrial Relations, Vol. 47, no. 2, pp. 406-428 ). This includes over 1000 employment elasticity estimates and concludes the results "corroborate [Card and Krueger's] overall finding of an insignificant employment effect". Also try the latest review by Wolfson and Belman. This finds that, if only latter studies are used (27 studies since 2000), positive employment effects are found.

    FACT 2: Supply and demand analysis rejects standard disemployment effects. For these effects to hold you need perfectly competitive labour markets such that firms are wage takers. It would be ludicrous to suggest perfect competition holds. We would need perfect information such that there are no job search frictions. Given we know that isn't the case, we know that firms are wage makers and therefore monopsonistic market failures hold.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does. It results in fewer jobs for those at the bottom and a decrease in wage competition so businesses start using more qualifications that the poorest do not have to hire.
     
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  13. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Higher unemployment of whom?
     
  14. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Neumark is no outlier.

    2011 study by Baskaya and Rubinstein of Brown University found that at the federal level, "a rise in minimum wage have an instantaneous impact on wage rates and a corresponding negative impact on employment", stating, "Minimum wage increases boost teenage wage rates and reduce teenage employment." (http://innovation-archives.berkeley.edu/businessinnovation/WilliamsonSeminar/rubinstein110311.pdf)

    Another 2011 study by Sen, Rybczynski, and Van De Waal found that "a 10% increase in the minimum wage is significantly correlated with a 3−5% drop in teen employment. (https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/labeco/v18y2011i1p36-47.html)

    A 2012 study by Sabia, Hansen, and Burkhauser found that "minimum wage increases can have substantial adverse labor demand effects for low-skilled individuals", with the largest effects on those aged 16 to 24. (http://cepr.net/blogs/cepr-blog/hoffman-on-sabia-burkhauser-and-hansen-on-the-minimum-wage) (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2083088)

    2013 study by Suzana Laporšek of the University of Primorska, on youth unemployment in Europe claimed there was "a negative, statistically significant impact of minimum wage on youth employment.(https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.799752)

    A 2013 study by labor economists Tony Fang and Carl Lin which studied minimum wages and employment in China, found that "minimum wage changes have significant adverse effects on employment in the Eastern and Central regions of China, and result in disemployment for females, young adults, and low-skilled workers. (http://ftp.iza.org/dp7813.pdf)

    2013 study by Meer and West concluded that "the minimum wage reduces net job growth, primarily through its effect on job creation by expanding establishments ... most pronounced for younger workers and in industries with a higher proportion of low-wage workers.'' (https://economics.mit.edu/files/9497)

    A 2014 study by Jeffrey Clemens and Michael Wither, found that 1.4 million jobs were lost in the late 2000's (GRec) following increases in the minimum wage. (https://www.nber.org/papers/w20724.pdf)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  15. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Low skilled workers. Especially the youth.
     
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  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I've already proved he is by referring to the meta reviews. Try again with the critique...

    FACT 1: Meta analysis confirms Card and Krueger's findings. Try Doucouliagos and Stanley (2009, Publication Selection Bias in Minimum Wage Research? A Meta-Regression Analysis, British Journal of Industrial Relations, Vol. 47, no. 2, pp. 406-428 ). This includes over 1000 employment elasticity estimates and concludes the results "corroborate [Card and Krueger's] overall finding of an insignificant employment effect". Also try the latest review by Wolfson and Belman. This finds that, if only latter studies are used (27 studies since 2000), positive employment effects are found.

    FACT 2: Supply and demand analysis rejects standard disemployment effects. For these effects to hold you need perfectly competitive labour markets such that firms are wage takers. It would be ludicrous to suggest perfect competition holds. We would need perfect information such that there are no job search frictions. Given we know that isn't the case, we know that firms are wage makers and therefore monopsonistic market failures hold.
     
  17. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've eaten in NY on vacation only but I keep my stays there very short, usually just there 24 hours then get in a cruise ship, not a fan of the city to be honest, noisy and noticeably expensive, food and drinks made a dent in the wallet!
     
  18. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice take-away from the facts presented.

    Oh man, belly laugh time.
     
  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Translation: Reality is wrong, look at my chalk board.
     
  20. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not know if you have checked restaurants
    Low wage workers are typically not legal
     
  21. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a sales tax on just about everything there except perhaps oxygen, but give De Blasio time and he'll figure out a way to tax the air we breathe.
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    The economy does better under democrats, pure and simple, every time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  23. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Geez, that's easy, just ballot harvest enough vote to elect any one of the twenty five democrats running for Prez, then none of will ever have to work again.
     
  24. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    Not so fast. If the garbage people stop collecting your trash, you'd be sorry. If store associates stopped stocking the grocery story shelves, you'd be sorry.

    You want someone who lacks economic opportunity to commit suicide? Must be a Trumper.
     
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  25. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you saying that republicans will become slaves to the world working to support democrats? Sounds good to me; let them work for the betterment of all mankind.
     

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