Dismiss Notice
Thanks for being a member of our community. Please donate toward site expenses if you can.

Should lethal force be used against illegal immigrants crossing the border?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Jan 25, 2019.

?

Should lethal force be used against illegal immigrants crossing the border?

  1. Yes - I lean liberal

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%

  2. No - I lean liberal

    12 vote(s)
    26.1%

  3. Yes - I lean conservative

    8 vote(s)
    17.4%

  4. No - I lean conservative

    13 vote(s)
    28.3%

  5. Other - Please reply below.

    9 vote(s)
    19.6%
Page 3 of 9
  1. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Certain industries inviting them here to work is one of the main causes of our illegal immigration problem. I am a firm believer that an even better solution to combating illegal immigration than building a wall is to heavily fine the ever living crap out of any US industry caught hiring illegal workers and revoke their business license permanently if they get caught twice. Removing that huge incentive to come over here illegally will have a much greater impact on reducing illegal immigration than building a wall that they can go around or under. The main reason so many come here illegally is because they know that our society allows them to survive here even off the books because our laws aren't enforced and even living in the shadows of our society here is still likely better than wherever they came from.

    For the record, I am 100% in favor of legal work visas, I'm talking about illegals here.

    As to the second point, for those trying to escape the dying hands of a crappy government then why is it that so many of them tend to just mosey on by 2 or 3 other countries on their way to ours?

    When seeking asylum you are generally supposed to take up refuge in the nearest country to yours that isn't screwed up too. It's not our fault that the NGO's can't make the determination that Mexico isn't a Safe Third Country. That whole premise is speculative at best anyway and subject to interpretation. Even our friendly Canadian neighbors filed a lawsuit against the US trying to revoke our STCA agreement between the two of us because they don't like the way we handle refugees.

    A notion by the Canadians that I am 100% in favor of. Revoke our STCA agreement therefore when the next caravan shows up on our doorstep we can put them on buses and drop them off up there and they would be obligated to take them. Only reason Canada is allowed to turn people away is because it will be "presumed that they will receive a full and fair hearing of their claims in the United States". A belief that Canada doesn't think we are too good at carrying out anymore, and I agree 100%. We suck at it and I believe that Canada would do a much better job than the US at treating asylum seekers properly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
    Nightmare515, Jan 27, 2019
    #51
  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,957
    Likes Received:
    19,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So we agree on point 1.
    On point 2, we don't have to let them in. But we don't shoot them for asking. As others have suggested.

    We make our immigration policies. And we have 1 messed up system.
    But neither side will address the issues. And I don't think either party wants to.

    The wall BS is purely political, IMO. There's no real benefit to it.
    And no, I don't mean absolutely no barrier. We have barriers. Man made and natural. And IMO, we have them most every beneficial place.
     
    dairyair, Jan 27, 2019
    #52
  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree the wall is mostly political. I do think it will help somewhat but not nearly as much as many believe. However, I'm no subject matter expert in that category. I've never even been to the border. But there are quite a few border agents who advocate for a wall and believe it will help and they are way more qualified to make that call than I am seeing how they are the ones who work down there everyday.

    We do make our immigration policies but we are also part of the UN therefore we agree to adhere to UN policies such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Which means we sort of do have to take on asylum seekers. I mean we could just not do that and there really isn't anything the UN could do about it but that's not the correct answer.

    Our immigration system is messed up because our political system is messed up. Politicians do whats best to get themselves elected and re-elected not whats best for we the people. Nobody wants to be the one who locks down the border "because we are tired of all the poor brown people coming up here". That wouldn't necessarily be the reason for doing that obviously but that's exactly what your opposition would say and run with and you'd be committing political suicide to get stigma attached to you. So both parties just sort of kick that can down the road because nobody wants to give the other side that huge nuke to use against them come election year.

    Republicans won't do it because Republicans are already painted as racist half the time anyway and doing that sure as hell isn't gonna help. And Democrats won't do it because the majority of minorities vote Democrat and it's not really a good idea to lock down the border next door to Latin America itself when the majority of Latin-Americans vote for you. Although plenty of Latin-Americans support border security, a whole lot of others would still take issue with the proverbial message sent by locking down the border next to Mexico...

    Gotta love this political chess game that puts we the people second and politicians and their quests for re-election first.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 27, 2019
    #53
  4. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    690
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Anyone that things killing people for misdemeanor trespassing needs to get their head checked.
     
    DavidMK, Jan 27, 2019
    #54
  5. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,957
    Likes Received:
    19,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is a political game.
    And yes, all the politicians care about is the next election.

    Having said that, the D's did commit political suicide with the ACA. I am no D, but it cost them dearly. Not sure why they did that, but they did. I assume they new it was political suicide at that time


    My sig for well over 10 yrs, is United We Stand, Divide We Fall.
    We've been divide for 25 yrs or more. And by that, divided where we can't see the other sides position and reach a compromise. For there is always division, but not to the point of no deal. Yes, I know, we had a civil war because of division.. It's complicated. And I am going in circles the more I type.

    I guess it's complicated, did I say that. LOL.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
    dairyair, Jan 27, 2019
    #55
  6. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yes it is complicated. However, when a person is steadfast in his/her own beliefs, there can never be a compromise. Compromise shows a weakness in the armor of the spirit.
     
    Incorporeal, Jan 28, 2019
    #56
  7. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unless if the U.S. government or some organization is encouraging you to violate Canada's sovereignty or are providing maps where to cross over the border or if the government ids providing transportation to and along the border (Mexican army routinely transports Mexicaicans along the border where they are dropped off where there is no wall or barrier.)

    Mexico's government has been heavily involved invading America.

    From 30 years ago...
     
    APACHERAT, Jan 28, 2019
    #57
  8. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    9,808
    Likes Received:
    2,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If we start machine gunning them, it will save a lot of lives.

    Of course some people don't want to hear that, they would rather sacrifice thousands,
    than admit it.
     
    yasureoktoo, Jan 28, 2019
    #58
  9. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,716
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Why am I insane? Im just asking a question. I certainly dont think we should be using lethal force. But I was curious what others though.
     
    Turin, Jan 28, 2019
    #59
  10. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,716
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I too see a civil war coming. But not for the same reasons that you seem to think.
     
    Turin, Jan 28, 2019
    #60
  11. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    9,808
    Likes Received:
    2,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why, do you just want more people to die.
     
    yasureoktoo, Jan 28, 2019
    #61
    Gorgeous George likes this.
  12. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    25,747
    Likes Received:
    9,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There will be no civil war, only full submission by the Trumpers and the alt right.
     
    JakeStarkey, Jan 28, 2019
    #62
    Gorgeous George likes this.
  13. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,246
    Likes Received:
    5,456
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just try it cowboy
     
    ToddWB, Jan 28, 2019
    #63
  14. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,246
    Likes Received:
    5,456
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I voted no, which is why we so need a wall in places, however, armed invaders should be repelled with lethal force and MS 13 and similar proven violent gangsters should be shot on sight. (If someone is going to die,, better them than us)
     
    ToddWB, Jan 28, 2019
    #64
  15. TexMexChef

    TexMexChef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    83
    there are no refugee law...loopholes.

    the law is what it is.


    change the law
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    TexMexChef, Jan 28, 2019
    #65
  16. TexMexChef

    TexMexChef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    83
    If Trump calls the border wall an emergency, the best he gets is the DOD building his wall.


    there is your emergency wall[​IMG]
     
    TexMexChef, Jan 28, 2019
    #66
  17. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I wonder who the two lib voters are who voted yes.
     
    Gorgeous George, Jan 28, 2019
    #67
  18. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have no fear of people seeking a better life.

    I do fear the people who want to kill them for it.
     
    Gorgeous George, Jan 28, 2019
    #68
    JakeStarkey likes this.
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,957
    Likes Received:
    21,266
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Lethal force should only ever be used as a response to lethal force.

    There are plenty of non-lethal ways to prevent non-violent border crossing attempts.
     
    modernpaladin, Jan 28, 2019
    #69
    ToddWB likes this.
  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thats what I just said

    change the law
     
    Mac-7, Jan 28, 2019
    #70
  21. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    9,808
    Likes Received:
    2,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, change the law.
    Change it to shoot them
     
    yasureoktoo, Jan 28, 2019
    #71
  22. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    18,288
    Likes Received:
    6,065
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not even those who seek a better life by invading your home?
     
    Pycckia, Jan 28, 2019
    #72
    ToddWB likes this.
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,957
    Likes Received:
    19,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Welcome back, you been gone a long time. Thought you moved on to green pastures.
    Weakness isn't always a bad thing. It could change a wrong belief.
     
    dairyair, Jan 28, 2019
    #73
  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,957
    Likes Received:
    21,266
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Prolly the same ones that dream about gun owners getting SWATed.

    Theres sickos on both sides.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    modernpaladin, Jan 28, 2019
    #74
    Incorporeal likes this.
  25. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Well thank you for that warm welcome. Glad to be able once again to spend some time among friends who like to have lengthy discussions. I have hovered for a couple of days, studying some of the newer members and making notation that some of the older ones maintain their old attitudes and beliefs.

    As for this instant topic of discussion: Only one question.... who is the one that determines whether something is "right" or "wrong" with regard to "beliefs"?
     
    Incorporeal, Jan 28, 2019
    #75
    Gorgeous George likes this.
Page 3 of 9

Share This Page