Should we ditch the Australian 'secret ballot'.

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by btthegreat, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow... well I guess that explains your position. We're clearly at an impasse.

    Best wishes.
     
  2. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It remains.
    Let the Federals design ballots for federal office
    as well as maintain voter registrations for those elections.

    It some State / County / City allows illegals to vote, just keep that
    out of Federal election tallies.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    We have “scrutineers” at every ballot station. Volunteers working with each part to oversee the counting and ensure it is fair and accurate. Don’t forget too that we have a very high turn out each election due to mandatory voting
     
  4. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    No on an anonymous political forum you look very brave telling me how you voted and how you will vote.
     
  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    oh definitely. I believe in transparency whenever we combine power to affect government, with government itself. You believe in secrecy and shadow, when you might be the one who has to be transparent.

    You advocate for your right to select who governs me, and how, in complete secrecy and shadow.
     
  6. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    You don't have the right to hunt people down
    Based on who they voted for. And the people who voted for Trump and made America better than it was before owe you absolutely nothing let alone an explanation of why they voted the way you did.

    What is it about progressives that only have a sense of justice when they are taking things from people that they have not earned?
     
  7. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Got any constitutional caselaw to say I don't have a right to hunt people down based on who they vote for? Pending a restraining order, my right to hunt you down for whatever reason is pretty much absolute. We have websites that will help us find each other without regard to the reason and professional private investigators who I can employ to prove your wrong. If someone does not want to answer my questions on any topic they wish, they know how to say 'no' and ask me to leave them alone. I will comply and if I don't there is legal recourse provided.
     
  8. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    the constitution is not a list of rights it's limitation on government!!!!!!

    the fact that you want this information and that you think you are entitled to it tells me that you and people tho think like you need to be kept as far away from power as possible, The fact that you don't think anything wrong with what you propose is truly scary.
     
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  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Do you think a law requiring that a red "T" be tattooed on the foreheads of Trump voters for ease of identification?

    Or would red "T" patches on all clothing be enough?
     
  10. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    In other words you have no basis to declare this right not to have your vote tabulated publicly, or to be asked about later. You got zip besides how you feel it ought to work and a lot of paranoia.
     
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    you don't understand even the most basic things about the constitution do you?
    you can ask people all you want, but they owe you nothing.
     
  12. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I haven't been clear. when voters used to show up to have their vote counted, the poll taker who did the documentation, did not distinguish between who they wanted to vote for before he asked. Everyone's vote was oral and everyone's vote was written down. Its not just Trumpsters who have to be transparent.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  13. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for you to prove your assertion that people have a right to a private ballot, or a right not to be questioned on why they voted the way they did.
     
  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    You did not answer my question.
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    liberty included me not owing you a damn thing regardless of how bad you want it..

    your life going well now? thank a Trump voter
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  16. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The right to a secret private ballot are now considered fundamental human rights for rather obvious reasons.
     
  17. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    it was always a fundamental human right
     
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  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    A very inconvenient fundamental human right for the fans of totalitarian political purges.
     
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  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    and exemplifying why it is important to remember that the constitution is a description of how government is to be limited and absolutely not a list of rights given to Americans by the government.
    the government cannot take away that which is not in it's authority to do so
     
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  20. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Hence the 10th: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What federal election? All elections are fun by the states and local government under your state constitution. Just amazing how upset the left is they lost to Trump that you would want to change from a secret ballot to a system where the politicians in power could intimidate and coerce voters. WOW that really makes for a free system of the people and by the people and for the people.
     
  22. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I feel this is such a dangerous idea. The potential for abuse in a voting system like this is immense. And what do you hope to gain by exposing everyone's vote? Holding the people more accountable to the government? That isn't what America was founded on. We were founded upon the notion that the government should be held accountable to the people, not the other way around.

    I mentioned the potential of abuse, and like all decisions, one must weight the gain versus the risk so without using an inordinate amount of time thinking about it, imagine a system where these risks are going to be given fertile ground:

    A system in which people can and will be discriminated against in employment based upon who they voted for. As an example, American Universities already require a rigid orthodoxy of thought in which 90 to 95% of all professors identify as liberal. Should orthodoxy of thought be a requirement for employment? Do you think liberal universities would hire any conservatives at all if one could access their voting records? A university education is supposed to expand minds by presenting diverse views and right now, diverse views on campus are extremely rare. Can you even imagine a university where diversity of thought isn't even possible, even if a student were to actively seek it?

    A system in which small business owners would not be allowed to vote for fear of economic boycotts and retaliations. In Portland, Oregon a chocolate shop was boycotted and lost significant revenue because one loon objected to the use of wooden sailing ships on their signs because those were the types of ships which transported slaves. Imagine the economic backlash if the public could see business owner's every vote.

    A system in which the state could easily award contracts and patronage based on party loyalty.

    A system in which the most political intolerant cities, such as Portland and Berkeley, which already have violent gangs which are tolerated and even encouraged by City Hall, are allowed to roam free and inflict violence on those who do not display the officially sanctioned purity of thought. I have lived in more politically tolerant states such as Kansas and Wyoming, and I cannot imagine an open vote system not getting violent and out of hand in those states, but an open vote in politically intolerant Portland is going to result in deaths.

    In terms of potential gain versus inevitable downside, an open vote just does not make sense.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you disagreed with all those law professors and constitutional experts when they refused to say if they voted for Trump especially the woman who screamed about her secret vote and how important is the secret vote?

    Representative Tom McClintock, Republican of California, tried without success to get the witnesses to raise their hands if they voted for Mr. Trump.

    “I have the right to a secret ballot,” Ms. Karlan objected.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/us/politics/impeachment-hearings.html
     
  24. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I see, you want to go to a "cancel" type voting system, so you can hunt down and harass anybody that doesn't agree with you. That way, you and your thugs can beat up the opposition.
     
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  25. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Because government officials are acting as my representative. I have the right to know how the person that represents me votes. They are the servants, and should be held responsible. You want to hold people responsible, which is different. That said, why don't you start and try to get non-secret ballots in your own state. Your state doesn't need permission from the feds to enact that. My state (Florida) guarantees the secret ballot for it's citizens.

    https://ballotpedia.org/Article_VI,_Florida_Constitution
     

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