US Army Muslim Gets 25 years for Giving Classified Documents & Drone to Islamic State

Too many Mother in laws.

 

I am not positive by things you say that you actually attended the LDS church with HQ in Salt Lake City.

The term condemn puzzles me. I looked this up on church sites.

I found this in context of polygamy.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/polygamy-questions-and-answers-with-the-los-angeles-times

 

I get it, but when Brigham Young said the Salt Lake Valley was "the place" he as the leader of the group had a major problem.

Women whose husbands perished. Some women lost husbands at Nauvoo, Illinois. I recall reading actual letters written by survivors. My family has a family repository of such material stored in perpetuity in Salt Lake City. I grew up not aware of it until i was an adult. i saw letters myself. It was very enlightening to read letters by women in their own words talking to me from their graves.

I doubt there were many mothers in laws. It would mean the daughter plus her mother were church members. Sure some no doubt were. How many I do not know.

Rather than the youngest girls, i mostly think of the women as the married partner to a man they married perhaps in New York State or in Illinois or perhaps in Kansas.

They were married long enough to have children. Anyway too much focus on polygamy since our church ended it in 1890.

We have no jurisdiction over the FLDS. They know they are not the church i attend.

 

Then why did you react as if my comments on FLDS were an attack on LDS?

I very specifically said FLDS, and that it is not the LDS. Yet you acted like I was attacking the LDS itself.

The same with the attempt at denying the polygamist past of the LDS. The LDS readily admits it's past issues, and nobody tries to deny it. Bringing up later statements that really come from the RLDS once again has nothing to do with LDS itself.

But the entire issue that brought this up is how off-shoot sects often change or if you like pervert the teachings of a group to suit their own wants. Much as most Roman Catholics are not anti-Semitic. But there is undoubtedly a group that uses and twists church doctrine to support their anti-Semitic beliefs. And they primarily use older doctrines, which did indeed support anti-Semitic beliefs. But those have long been repudiated by the mainstream church.

 

And you would be wrong. The 2 I attended most was the one in Idaho City and the one on Hill Road in Boise.

And you are saying that the church never supported polygamy? I am not talking now, I was talking historically.

 

I don't care that you misquote, @Robert. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints admits fully that JSJr. was the fount and founder of LDS polygamy, that he practiced it, that he had many wives.

Thus, you take one out of context statement by Emma and throw out all of the research, evidence, and proof Joseph's polygamy.

You are immorally stubborn. You are out of step with your Church's witness and evidence.

Go to, fellow.

Yes, the LDS church condemns and opposes the FLDS vigorously.

 

Somehow you don't strike me as a man that likes my church at all. And i showed you what the church has to say about those in the FLDS.

Why you do not believe Smith's wife is a puzzle to me.

And you are tilting at windmills. The government of the USA waited until 1890 before outlawing polygamy. They defacto approved it.

Think of it like slavery as a topic. First they approved it then they quit approving polygamy.

 

Sure the church approved it. As to support for it? I guess by my other comment, sure they supported it.

But let me boil it down this way. Was it against the law?

The Feds messed around until 1890 to make it a law.

And where it was done the most was in a Territory, and that is not like a state.

 

@Robert, I like Mormons and I have no ill feelings at all against the LDS Church. I have lived around Mormons all of my life since I was born, my friend. To deny them would be to deny me to an extent.

The arguments you used earlier to say JSJr. was not a polygamist and that the FLDS are not condemned by the LDS Church are false.

Period. Quit distorting those points.

 

You are not even a Mormon yet you keep attacking me. I do not think I have attacked you back over this issue.

I believe my 66 years as a church member stands for something.

 

I am attacking the falsification of the evidence, not you, @Robert.

I am glad you are a 66-year member. You should get 11 CTRs. JSJr. was a polygamist. The FLDS Church has been condemned by the LDS Church.

 

Thank you very much for defending my church. For being well aware that Joseph Smith broke no laws. For saying my church is against polygamy.

 

Only you are talking about laws and polygamy, @Robert.

I am stating correctly that almost every active LDS member accepts that JSJr. practiced polygamy with many women.

Thank you for accepting that I am right on that matter.

 

This is not remotely a conversation. It amounts to you trying to bully me into changing my mind. After you saying only I am speaking of polygamy, you spin on your heel to speak of polygamy.

I go by what Emma said.

Name Smith's wives and date of marriage.

Second, Smith informed the church that polygamy was fine in 1843 and was killed in 1844. Did not leave him a lot of time to persuade a woman other than Emma to marry him, did it?

 

Giving you the facts is not bullying you, @Robert. You are flat wrong that JSJr. was monogamous. If you are speaking of polygamy, I will follow your lead. Emma is as wrong as you. Now if you are going to argue since they were not legally married (but you argue that polygamy and bigamy were not illegal, so, yes, these are good marriages), then JSJr. was one heck of an adulterer.

List of wives[edit]
Plural wife's maiden name (married name) Marriage Date Age[10] Recognized by Marital status at time of sealing Notes
TC[11] GS[12] FB[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives
Emma Hale(Smith)
January 17, 1827 22 Yes Yes Yes N/A The only woman legally wed to Smith, who he claimed publicly was his only spouse, and the only union known to have produced offspring.[14] Continued church activity within the RLDS Church.[15]Throughout life and on her deathbed she denied that her husband had plural wives.[16] Claimed that the very first time she ever became aware of a polygamy revelation being attributed to Smith was when she read about it in Orson Pratt's periodical The Seer in 1853.[17]Emma Hale and Joseph Smith were sealed together on May 28, 1843.[18]
Fanny Alger Early 1833 16 Yes Yes Single According to George D. Smith, Alger's relationship with Smith was attested to by several people, including Emma Smith, Warren Parish, Oliver Cowdery, and ****r C. Kimball.[19] Compton cites Mosiah Hancock's handwritten report of his father Levi's account of the marriage ceremony of Smith and Alger, and records his father's account of negotiations between Levi and Smith in procuring their respective wives. Compton also notes that nineteenth-century Mormons in Utah Territory, including Benjamin F. Johnson, ****r C. Kimball and Andrew Jenson, and former Mormons Chauncey Webb and Ann Eliza Webb Young, regarded the Smith–Alger relationship as a marriage.[20]Historian Lawrence Foster asserts a claim that later Mormons may have falsely assumed there was a marriage where there was only a sexual relationship: he views the marriage of Alger to Smith as a "debatable supposition" rather than "established fact".[21] As Richard Bushman has noted, Smith "never denied a relationship with Alger, but insisted it was not adulterous. He wanted it on record that he had never confessed to such a sin."[22]The best statement Smith could obtain from Cowdery was an affirmation that Smith had never acknowledged himself to have been guilty of adultery. "That", wrote Bushman, "was all Joseph wanted: an admission that he had not termed the Alger affair adulterous." After Smith's death, when Alger's brother asked her about her relationship with Smith, she replied, "That is all a matter of my own. And I have nothing to communicate."[23]
Lucinda Pendleton MorganHarris c. 1838 37 Yes Yes Yes Married Historians Richard Lloyd Andersonand Scott H. Faulring dismiss this claim as being based on "no solid evidence".[24] Compton notes the following evidence: she is the third woman on Andrew Jenson's 1887 list of Smith's plural wives; Compton writes that "Sarah Pratt reported that while in Nauvoo Lucinda had admitted a long-standing relationship with Smith", though Compton admits that this statement is "antagonistic, third-hand, and late";[25] and that there is an "early Nauvoo temple proxy sealing to Smith". This marriage was polyandrous, as Lucinda lived with her husband George Washington Harris until about 1853. Compton believes the marriage occurred around 1838, when Smith was living with Lucinda and her husband.[26]
Louisa Beaman
April 5, 1841 26 Yes Yes Yes Single (February 7, 1815 – May 16, 1850). Though Mormon history and press indicate Beaman was not baptized until May 11, 1843,[27][28] she had migrated with Mormons to Nauvoo in 1839 or 1840.[29] She has been called the "first plural wife of the Prophet Joseph Smith". [30] After Smith's death, Beaman remarried, becoming the ninth wife of Brigham Young. Young and Beaman had five children together, all of whom predeceased Beaman, who died at age 35.[31][32] Listed as a Smith plural wife by Joseph F. Smith,[33]who noted an 1869 affidavit of Beaman's brother-in-law Joseph B. Noble, stating he officiated at the wedding.[34] This would have been prior to her baptism. The marriage was done without informing Joseph's first wife Emma.[35]
Zina Diantha Huntington (Jacobs)
October 27, 1841 20 Yes Yes Yes Married Husband was Henry Bailey Jacobs, who was aware of her plural marriage to Smith. Jacobs wrote, "[W]hatever the Prophet did was right, without making the wisdom of God's authorities bend to the reasoning of any man."[36] Sister of Presendia Huntington. After Smith's death, married Brigham Young while husband Jacobs was on mission to England.
Presendia Lathrop Huntington (Buell)
December 11, 1841 31 Yes Yes Yes Married (September 7, 1810 in Watertown, New York – February 1, 1892 in Salt Lake City, Utah Territory). Sister of Zina. After Smith's death, married ****r C. Kimball.
Agnes Moulton Coolbrith (Smith)
January 6, 1842 31 Yes Yes Yes Widowed Widow of Smith's brother Don Carlos. (1808–1876). After Don Carlos died in 1841, Coolbrith married Smith in 1842.[37] Coolbrith was the mother of Ina Coolbrith, who became the first poet laureate of California.
Sylvia Porter Sessions Lyon
February 8, 1842 23 Yes Yes Yes Married Daughter of David Sessions and Patty Bartlett Sessions, who married Smith one month after her daughter's marriage to him. On her deathbed, Sylvia informed her daughter Josephine Lyons that she was Smith's daughter,[38] but genetic testing has contradicted this assertion.[39][40]
Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner January 17, 1842 23 Yes Yes Yes Married (April 9, 1818 in Lima, New York – December 17, 1913 in Minersville, Utah). Claimed that Smith had a private conversation with her in 1831 when she was twelve years old,[41][42]
"[At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. … In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife …. [In 1842 I] went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing … for time, and all Eternity. I did just as Joseph told me to do".

Meanwhile, in 1835 she married another man, Adam Lightner a non-Mormon. They had two children and she was pregnant with her third at the time she was sealed to Joseph Smith in 1842. “I went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing, and ****r C. Kimball the blessing." After the sealing she continued to live with her first husband Adam. That summer they moved fifteen miles away at Pontoosuc. Following the death of Joseph Smith Mary went briefly back to Nauvoo. In the fall of 1844 Brigham Young and ****r Kimball offered themselves to Smith's widows as proxy husbands and Mary accepted Young's proposal. She was sealed to him for time in a proxy marriage on May 22, 1845: "I was also sealed to B Young as proxy for Joseph," she wrote, though she continued to live with Adam.

When Brigham Young and the church left Nauvoo to emigrate to Utah, Mary and Adam stayed behind. They eventually moved to Utah 17 years later settling in the town of Minersville 217 miles from Salt Lake City, the seat of the church and Brigham Young. In her later years she would often supplicate the church for monetary assistance appealing to them on the basis of her connection with Joseph and Brigham.[43]

Mary Elizabeth and her sister Caroline were instrumental in salvaging printed pages of the Book of Commandments when the printing press was destroyed by a mob on July 20, 1833.[44]

Patty Bartlett (Sessions)
March 9, 1842 47 Yes Yes Yes Married (February 4, 1795 in Bethel, Massachusetts (now Maine) – December 14, 1893 in Bountiful, Utah Territory). Her daughter Sylvia Porter Sessions Lyon, who had married Smith one month before, was present at Session's wedding to Smith.[45]
Marinda Nancy Johnson (Hyde)

And more than 25 others

 

@Robert, if you have been a member more than sixty years, then all of the above was accepted by most church members, certainly the ones from the Intermountain West.

Why are you denying what you know is true?

 

@Robert, why is this a big deal with you. We both know so many LDS who accept JSJr. was a polygamist.

 

Because on the official Church site, Smith having married other than Emma Hale is not of record.

Perhaps you are quoting something from the outlaw bunch that calls themselves Mormons.

I use official church records. Best you do the same.

 

Frankly I do not mind if he did have more than one wife. It was totally legal to do that at the time.

If so many of us accept he had many wives, why is it not on our church site that he had them?

I entered on the official church site that Joseph Smith had many wives and it did not show other than Emma.

 

Joseph Smith Jr had a son also named Joseph Smith. That perhaps is your problem. Confusing father with son.

 

Your problem is immoral stubborness.

Note the links and read them.

1. Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo - The Church of Jesus ...
   www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland...
   The Persistence of Polygamy: Joseph Smith and the Origins of Mormon Polygamy [Independence, MO: John Whitmer Books, 2010], 233–56.) J. Spencer Fluhman, “A Subject that Can Bear Investigation’: Anguish, Faith, and Joseph Smith’s Youngest Plural Wife,” in Robert L. Millet, ed.,
   
   
2. Mormon Church Publishes Essay On Founder Joseph Smith's Polygamy
   www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363814184/mormon-church...
   Mormon Church Publishes Essay On Founder Joseph Smith's Polygamy The Mormon church's founder was married to as many as 40 women in the years before his murder in 1844, the church acknowledged in ... www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

 

From the LDS.org link (2nd paragraph) above. Now no more of your denials.

After receiving a revelation commanding him to practice plural marriage, Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates. This principle was among the most challenging aspects of the Restoration—for Joseph personally and for other Church members. Plural marriage tested faith and provoked controversy and opposition. Few Latter-day Saints initially welcomed the restoration of a biblical practice entirely foreign to their sensibilities. But many later testified of powerful spiritual experiences that helped them overcome their hesitation and gave them courage to accept this practice.

 

You use non church sites. I use our official church sites.

i have pointed out that I do not mind one bit were it proven that the founder had over one wife. But he did not issue the proclamation until the 12 month span of his end of life. Where were all those wives prior to Nauvoo where he was when he issued the proclamation allowing polygamy?

If he married women, why did his own wife so loudly deny he had?

Think this over. We speak all the time that Brigham Young had many wives. We do not mind at all that he had a number of wives. We even explain the conditions then in existence where they landed in the then territory called Utah.

We explain that polygamy was legal. We explain when that changed. We know why it changed. Government decided to get involved in marriage. I thought Democrats hate government involved in marriage.

 

www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland is the lds web site. OPen it. NPR cites directly from it. You are not the authority on this. lds.org is the authority.

It says that Joseph married many wives in polygamy.

I will not tolerate your stubbornness. You are wrong. I have given you the church link, yet you say it is not. Nonsense.

Don't argue with your church- approved website, @Robert.

 

@Robert, I am awaiting your reply that concedes I have linked the church website to my points that refute your statements.