Do you think they are needing to be paid to protest? China is reneging on the promises made when Hong Kong was handed over. (China said it’s the CIA, but I don’t think the CIA is in that business ant more)
peaceful protest is fine, but now it become a riot. i saw news today where people block subway entrance during rush hour to protest, that just inconvenient for everybody. also rioter sack government build few weeks ago, could you imagine if anti-US protester sack DC capital and draw anti-US slogan inside the building. all these protester are youngester mostly under 20s or some under 30s, the grow up have jobs/family and other responsibility. btw UK is pure hypocrite on this, in its155 years control of HK, it never give a damn about democracy. china is not interest getting involved, it play smart on this 1st it broadcast hongkong protest in china, which drum up chinese nationalism 2nd China just gonna wait, when most resident of HK start getting angry over protester who disrupt their daily live, the young protester are basically making enemies of rest HK residents. it can wait for years, eventually people get so fed up on it. in 2014, china wait for 6 months for the protest to die down, didn't even care about it. later it arrest the leader of the protest. they become much smarter on how to handle this.
china never give HK any promises, UK control HK for 155 years, yet it never give a semblance of democracy, they expect a 1 party country like china to provide democracy where UK didn't even consider it for over 155 years?
Sorry, not promise but “A constitutional obligation that they put into the Basic Law.” https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/diane-m-francis/hong-kong-democracy_b_5952142.html “Alan Hoo, a top barrister and expert on the Basic Law, the city constitution, told BBC News that China had not broken any promises. "I think that its position is grossly misunderstood," he says. "Firstly, it's not a promise. It is a legal obligation, a constitutional obligation that they put in the Basic Law."” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29454385 HONG KONG — Authorities in Hong Kong on Monday took an unprecedented step against separatist voices by banning a political party that advocates independence for the southern Chinese territory on national security grounds........ The ban is likely to raise further questions about Beijing's growing influence in the former British colony, which was promised semi-autonomy as part of the 1997 handover. Chinese President Xi Jinping and other officials have warned separatist activity would not be tolerated. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/hong-kong-bans-pro-independence-political-party-n912431
the key word is "semi-autonomy" also the problem is there are too many HK that china consider are too pro west. what that mean is under basic law they can use national security to justify free election. think about it, will US allow anti-american US citizen elected into congress? the answer is no. if HK can elect its official/legislator, and if that legislator is pro-west, then yes it become national security issue. This is actually happened in HK before where pro-west legislator hold UK flag in the government legislation building on his 1st day of work and said HK is not china. he of course got fired later. any government jobs US/UK/Chinese whatever, will not allow a citizen who have foreign preference/influence to hold position within their government entity. its in the law of UK/US and many countries. especially those jobs are high up, HK legislator are equivalent to US senators. if HK become free election, its very likely dozens foreign preference/influence legislator will be elected, and thats huge national security issue. imagine if US congress man or potus has foreign preference/influence of russia so its naive to think china will give HK true democracy under these circumstances, especially UK didn't set a good example while it occupy HK for 155 years. It had plenty chances to introduce free election, universal suffrage, but it never even discuss it. also after 1997 handover, UK can give many HK resident UK citizenship, but UK didn't do it or dont want to. And now they expect a country with 1 party, non-democratic to give democracy for one of its territory, on top of that alot youngster live there are anti-china, that just naive. china/HK government just gonna wait out like they did in 2014. the more time protester disrupt HK business/street etc, the more likely HK resident will be fed up with the protester, after all grow up have jobs/family and other responsibility to take care of.
and you can't put a good argument to counter it, because i'm right. National security is an issues there for china, that just a fact. the best for HK, is to leave it, if they dont want to rule by CCP and prefer UK, then jsut move there or elsewhere. Most HK are native english speaker anyway,
I agree with the 2nd. It looks so far like the Chinese government is going to wait it out again with HK protesters and give them little to no concessions on the matter in the end after they lose steam. We will see.
I have seen no looting, no destruction of private property, no mobs beating up innocent bystanders, and no demands from the protesters other than the right to life free. What happened to the “Right to self-determination”? Why do the tyrants in Beijing have the right to decide for the individuals in Hong Kong the fate of their existence? My advice to those living in Hong Kong is to take your wealth and run, as fast and as faraway as you can go. The West will not come to your aid. You stay, you die. And you know it.
Either there has to be conviction way down in the marrow and a huge war to free Hong Kong, or Hong Kong must be left to die and soon receive a name change with the old name Hong Kong remembered no more. Remember free Tibet? That was nothing but empty words.
did UK give HK right to self-determination in its 155 years of charge. HK is part of china, and china as everyone knows is a one party system, so why the heck they would allow HK to be democratic when UK didn't even do it. freedom/democracy is NOT free, remember American revolution, the Arab spring, the French revolution, its all payed with blood and economy sacrifice really what are these then, if this happen in DC capital, the protester might get shot. they rush into central HK government building and basically destroy the interior, and block the exist, what happen if some government employee have a emergency and can't get out!!. it might start as a peaceful protest but now it just disruption to the locals https://www.theguardian.com/world/v...rotesters-storm-government-headquarters-video
Have you ever met any Chinese elite? They got rich because of the CCP, not despite it. The Chinese economy is crony capitalism writ large.
According to the leftist China is leading the world in the fight against global warming so if they brutally suppress these demonstrations it's a small price to pay and China still leads America in green energy so no big deal.
They still have the right to freedom, and right to fight for it. However, it will lose, many will die pointlessly. The West will do nothing. They did to shrugged, take what they can, and get the hell out and leave the Chinese only the dying embers of a once free and wealthy state, Hong Kong. Ayn Rand: "The right of “the self-determination of nations” applies only to free societies or to societies seeking to establish freedom; it does not apply to dictatorships. Just as an individual’s right of free action does not include the “right” to commit crimes (that is, to violate the rights of others), so the right of a nation to determine its own form of government does not include the right to establish a slave society (that is, to legalize the enslavement of some men by others). There is no such thing as “the right to enslave.” A nation can do it, just as a man can become a criminal—but neither can do it by right"--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/self-determination_of_nations.html
Democracy does not equal freedom. Individual Rights, including the right to property, does. Under UK, Hong Kong had that freedom. Hong Kong did not ask to return to China. The UK lease was expiring, China demanded it back, and the UK took the best deal that they could to try and preserve Hong Kong's rule of law, its free press, its independence, and it's principle of property rights. China took control and has been chipping away at its independence ever since. The West will do nothing. Hong Kong will be crushed, like Lady Liberty and her defenders in Tiananmen Square. My advice, and the purpose my OP is and was to shame the West the defense of liberty and to tell the wealth creators to get the "hell out of Dodge", the zombies, oops, the Commies are coming. Ayn Rand: "f we discard morality and substitute for it the Collectivist doctrine of unlimited majority rule, if we accept the idea that a majority may do anything it pleases, and that anything done by a majority is right because it’s done by a majority (this being the only standard of right and wrong)—how are men to apply this in practice to their actual lives? Who is the majority? In relation to each particular man, all other men are potential members of that majority which may destroy him at its pleasure at any moment. Then each man and all men become enemies; each has to fear and suspect all; each must try to rob and murder first, before he is robbed and murdered."--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/democracy.html This much is true: The Chinese will prevail, liberty will die in Hong Kong, and West will do nothing. To the individuals living in Hong Kong--One ignores reality at one's own peril. Get out now.
whatever the right HK had under UK, china allow HK to keep it. HK has right to property, right of free speech and protest now. of course china demand HK back, they consider HK was part of china, they lost it due to opium war and was consider great shame for them. you keeping saying HK freedom was chip away, well HK never had that kind freedom under UK. so what part of HK freedom it had under UK rule that China chip away? do you know HK wasn't allow to buy the best properties in HK during UK rules, yes those properties was reserved for rich/powerful Europeans. if UK care, the first thing UK should do is something about the atrocity commit in Africa, how many African die in sudan. you have no idea on Tiananmen square before, I do, I know people who survive Tiananmen square, its much complicate then your idealism. ever wonder why modern china don't have Tiananmen square now when china open up its economy door. why Chinese national against HK protest?
sure where is that right under 155 years of UK rules, you know up till 80s, HKonger was treated as 2nd class citizens. ever wonder why most protester are teens with some under 30s.
Ah, China's still a dictatorship. So, whatever Hong Kong and UK's sins were, both the real and the imagined --leave now, and leave fast, the door of opportunity is closing, as China strangles both political freedom and economic freedom. The future looks dark, as the light of liberty dims.
Even granting you your premise as true, WTF! China is still a dictatorship. Leave. Things are about to get worse.
I agree china is an authoritarian government, but UK could done a lot to help HK situation after WWII, it can give HK free election, universal suffrage etc etc. if HK was a true democratic since 80s or before, then it will be almost impossible for China to change it. even after 1997, UK could accept many HK as its citizens, it didn't do that either. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/painful-memories-of-imperialisms-darker-side-1258864.html
Preaching to the wrong choir, I despise, detest, and damn all and any democracies; they subordinate rights and morality to majority rule, the tyranny of the mob.
Crony capitalists, like all capitalists, seek to hoard and protect wealth. When you see "anti-corruption" crusades in places like China and Saudi Arabia, understand that you're seeing a political struggle. The Communist Party knows that the wealthy elite of China are becoming a political threat to them. Things will change, and I can tell you exactly what form that will take. It's just inevitable.
